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Do you stick clip? Why or why not?

Original Post
William Sonoma · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 3,550

Until this past weekend I had never stick clipped a single bolt. I was eyeing up a route and the first bolt was a bit high (relative). Not terrible but I was definitly aware of the distance between me and the first bolt.

A dude had a telescoping stick clipper and offered it. I turned him down at first but ended up using his stick clip.

I am totally "on the fence" about using a stick clip. The "just have fun" and be safe part of me sees the appeal of using a stick clip. But another part (or two) of me sees using a stick clip as a "robber" of the full experience.

Do you use a stick clip? Why or why not?

David B · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 205

I don't climb sport routes for the scare factor. A lot of routes in the SE are equipped with the intention that you will use a stick clip.

Lanky · · Tired · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 255

Of course. I'm not looking to break an ankle or prove how tough I am.

Jason Halladay · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 15,143

I like my ankles intact and hope to use them well for many more years and, thus, have no objection at all to using a stick clip. I don't use one all the time or in every "high first bolt" circumstance but if the first bolt is high enough, the landing bad enough and the climbing potentially tricky or hard, by all means use one. At least on the first attempt. Then, on subsequent attempts, you can get that "I just risked serious injury" experience by not using the stick clip.

hrdeyo · · Greenbay, WI · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 0

Come to boulder canyon, you can reach the first and sometimes 2nd bolt from the ground

Jeffrey Lash · · Baltimore, MD · Joined May 2012 · Points: 251

Stoned, you're referring to Safe Harbor, yes? What route did you stick? I've climbed there a bunch in the last year and there are plenty of routes with high first bolts but usually easy terrain below. Super Slab and Tenuous Odyssey come to mind.

William Sonoma · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 3,550

I appreciate your opinions and am now more open to stick clipping (matt wilder and jason halladays summed it up for me).

I totally get the average response here and i dont think getting injured (injured = no climbing) JUST to not get judged by someone else (or your own self?) is not worth it.

thanks everyone.

Peter Jackson · · Rumney, NH · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 445

Here in Rumney, a stick clip on the first bolt is common, expected in certain places, and in most cases would not negate a redpoint. Stick clipping the second bolt would negate a redpoint.

Please do stick clip if it keeps you safe. And if you get a clean send, then on your next attempt, forgo the stick.

David B · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 205
Peter Jackson wrote:And if you get a clean send, then on your next attempt, forgo the stick.
Why? I had a friend break his ankle because a hold broke before the first clip. I don't think this is an isolated incident, either.
Will S · · Joshua Tree · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,061

When sport climbing, sure. And more and more frequently the last couple years.

Probably do it more to get a TR on hard-to-decipher sequences when working a route that's new to me, than for clipping the first bolt or two. But I also do that (clip the first one) if the climbing off the ground is not straightforward.

Getting hurt climbing is stupid, but there is alot of calculated risk in trad and alpine climbing or free soloing. Those risks are part of what makes it appealing. But getting hurt sport climbing is REALLY stupid, because risk isn't really supposed to be part of the equation.

Peter Jackson · · Rumney, NH · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 445
dmb wrote: Why? I had a friend break his ankle because a hold broke before the first clip. I don't think this is an isolated incident, either.
It's certainly not a requirement. I'm saying that if you feel like it's important to do it without the stick, do it without the second time, after you know the moves.
BrianWS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 790

It's pretty clear why would one use a stick to protect high, occasionally cruxy moves to the first bolt. As another poster mentioned, climb enough lines harder than 5.11 in the SE (or any sport-heavy crag for that matter), and you will come across many many climbs with first bolt well off the deck and with movement at or near the overall grade going to it.

For all the anti-stick clip crowd: if using a stick 'detracts' from the experience, or is somehow considered 'cheating', what about the use of ropes, bolts, pro, pads, etc. in general? Why bother with those in the first place? By that logic, doesn't *anything* short of soloing cheapen the experience?

The Stoned Master wrote:Until this past weekend I had never stick clipped a single bolt. I was eyeing up a route and the first bolt was a bit high (relative). Not terrible but I was definitly aware of the distance between me and the first bolt. A dude had a telescoping stick clipper and offered it. I turned him down at first but ended up using his stick clip. I am totally "on the fence" about using a stick clip. The "just have fun" and be safe part of me sees the appeal of using a stick clip. But another part (or two) of me sees using a stick clip as a "robber" of the full experience. Do you use a stick clip? Why or why not?
Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989

If I wanted to risk injury for the purity of the line, I wouldn't be sport climbing. Indeed, the concept of risk for "purity" is a anathema to sport climbing. I stick clip most of the time, and I don't have any sponsors or fans to offend, so I feel no guilt.

Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590
Peter Jackson wrote:Here in Rumney, a stick clip on the first bolt is common, expected in certain places, and in most cases would not negate a redpoint. Stick clipping the second bolt would negate a redpoint. Please do stick clip if it keeps you safe. And if you get a clean send, then on your next attempt, forgo the stick.
Or in some case the second bolt is pretty common as well, such as on Whip Tide. But it's aid anyway because of the ladder. Sigh...

Seriously though, up until I climbed 11's or so at Rumney stick clipping to me meant climbing up to the bolt, clipping and downclimbing before a redpoint. Now I actually stick clip where necessary :) Many a climb at Rumney has no need for a stickclip, but there are just as many (mostly harder routes) that are certainly designed with a stickclip in mind.
Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590
BrianWS wrote:It's pretty clear why would one use a stick to protect high, occasionally cruxy moves to the first bolt. As another poster mentioned, climb enough lines harder than 5.11 in the SE (or any sport-heavy crag for that matter), and you will come across many many climbs with first bolt well off the deck and with movement at or near the overall grade going to it. For all the anti-stick clip crowd: if using a stick 'detracts' from the experience, or is somehow considered 'cheating', what about the use of ropes, bolts, pro, pads, etc. in general? Why bother with those in the first place? By that logic, doesn't *anything* short of soloing cheapen the experience?
I forget who said it, but: "Naked, barefoot, chalkless, and solo is climbing; everything else is a compromise."

Take that!
Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Will S wrote: But getting hurt sport climbing is REALLY stupid, because risk isn't really supposed to be part of the equation.
No offense, but that attitude gets people killed. Yes the level of risk in sport climbing is not as high as say aid, alpine, or ice climbing. But quite frankly gravity doesn't care what convenient little category we put our activities in. There is risk every time you leave the ground.

If you're looking for a sport where risk is not part of the equation, I suggest you pick a different sport (no pun intended).

If you don't believe me, read the latest copy of ANAM. There are plenty of people injured or killed sport climbing every year.
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
Stagg54 wrote: No offense, but that attitude gets people killed. Yes the level of risk in sport climbing is not as high as say aid, alpine, or ice climbing. But quite frankly gravity doesn't care what convenient little category we put our activities in. There is risk every time you leave the ground. If you're looking for a sport where risk is not part of the equation, I suggest you pick a different sport (no pun intended). If you don't believe me, read the latest copy of ANAM. There are plenty of people injured or killed sport climbing every year.
I think that you are misinterpreting what Will S is saying about sport climbing. When he says that risk is not supposed to be part of the equation, he is saying that sport climbing is engineered to take out as much of the risk as possible. In trad climbing, alpine climbing, highball bouldering, etc, there is plenty of risk left in intentionally to keep things exciting and adventurous. Sport climbing is different. While some risk is inevitable (walking down the stairs has some risk inherent to it), it is not what you are seeking out in sport climbing. Instead, you seek to set up a system such that all of the risk/safety factors are dealt with ahead of time, or are int he hands of the belayer, such that the climber can focus entirely on trying really really hard. As such, stick clipping is perfectly in line with the spirit of sport climbing, and I do it regularly.
Will S · · Joshua Tree · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,061

^^^
Yep.

Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245

no shame in stick clipping. I sport climb for fun not for danger.

BBQ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 554

Stick clips are a good idea. They can also work well as walking sticks on steep trails. They are also fun to give to people who have never used them before. Most people fumble around with the Trango Squid that I loan them and come back 10 minutes later asking "How do you use this damned thing?"

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

i started using one a few years ago for a couple reasons. first, a friend of mine got pretty jacked up when a hold broke on hard climbing getting up to a high first bolt. second, i did a route at eldo with a roof, and a hold came off when i was above the roof. my wife had a hanging belay below the roof, and i completely kicked her head in. broken helmet and everything.

sooo, now if a sport route has a dicey start i usually stick clip the first and sometimes 2nd bolt so that i can avoid this mess. i don't really care what folks think of it. i'm not sponsored, i don't climb hard, i am old, i don't really have anything to prove.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Sport Climbing
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