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Do you stick clip? Why or why not?
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By The Stoned Master
Administrator
From Pennsylvania
Nov 21, 2013
Day Lily.
5.samadhi wrote: I stick clip trad routes :/

everyone should. much safer that way. i hate when i place the first piece too high so its then hard to stick clip (especially after the long down climb). takes practice to get this technique down, but once you do the safety you feel is worth it.

FLAG
By Russ Keane
Dec 10, 2013
Where's Waldo?
I hate stick clipping.

I think it's cheesey and it ruins the whole idea of the sport climb. For me getting to the first bolt is the best part of the whole experience. If you can't get it clean, then why bother?

But that's just me. Others can do what they want. I will judge you, and essentially hate your stick clip. Sorry if that's not kosher.

FLAG
By BobGray
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Dec 10, 2013
My Hero
Russ Keane wrote:
I hate stick clipping. I think it's cheesey and it ruins the whole idea of the sport climb. For me getting to the first bolt is the best part of the whole experience. If you can't get it clean, then why bother? But that's just me. Others can do what they want. I will judge you, and essentially hate your stick clip. Sorry if that's not kosher.



Exactly!!!!

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By J. Kincaid
Dec 10, 2013
Tobacco Road, 5.12b Summersville WV
Part of me agrees with Russ. I prefer to do it without the stick clip, but I also understand the need to do it in certain situations. You won't find me carrying a "stick clip", but if I feel the need to clip the first bolt I'm not beyond using one. In the end it comes down to what makes you feel safe and have fun so I won't judge you if you do, but I generally will not.

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By Vaughne
Dec 10, 2013
Russ Keane wrote:
I hate stick clipping. I think it's cheesey and it ruins the whole idea of the sport climb. For me getting to the first bolt is the best part of the whole experience. If you can't get it clean, then why bother? But that's just me. Others can do what they want. I will judge you, and essentially hate your stick clip. Sorry if that's not kosher.


I agree. If you can't onsight something then why bother? Why do people even use protection at all anyway? I think anyone that uses a rope is a wuss and I will judge them.

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By Jonathan Dull
From Boone, NC
Dec 10, 2013
Upper pitches on Crescent Tower, Bugaboos.
Stick Clip...I think you meant to say Chicken Stick.

Couldn't resist.

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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Dec 10, 2013
Russ Keane wrote:
I hate stick clipping. I think it's cheesey and it ruins the whole idea of the sport climb. For me getting to the first bolt is the best part of the whole experience. If you can't get it clean, then why bother? But that's just me. Others can do what they want. I will judge you, and essentially hate your stick clip. Sorry if that's not kosher.


I think you are confusing the idea of a trad climb and a sport climb.

Sport climbing is, by definition, being able to focus on the movement without worrying about the danger. If the excitement of blowing it getting to the first bolt is what gets you going, thats fine, but I would recommend taking up trad climbing, as it is more in line with the type of adventure you're looking for.

One other thing- judging someone for how they choose to enjoy their outdoor experience is pretty lame. Especially when it comes to something as silly as rock climbing.

FLAG
By Woodchuck ATC
Dec 10, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
If I could get someone to preplace all the screws, I'd be stick clipping ice too to save the hands from cold freezing finger numbing frostbite that I get so easily these days.

FLAG
 
By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Dec 10, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
I stick clip because I don't want the guy that's going to lead the route to get hurt.

FLAG
By Russ Keane
Dec 10, 2013
Where's Waldo?
Right- It is lame of me to judge others. I know. But ask yourself this:

If someone brought a ladder, and used it to place their first piece of gear on a trad lead, and clipped it, then came down and started their lead -- Would this also be ok? No judgment, right? A ladder.

So at some point there is a line in the sand. You DO impose yourself on others. I personally do not like stick clipping, and I don't like seeing others use it. I enjoy the vicarious enjoyment of seeing others clean lead sport climbs, especially the bottom sections. I LOVE the first bolt of climbs. I am a boulderer at heart. Stick clipping is just contrary to my taste.

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By Mike
From Phoenix
Dec 10, 2013
Doing the jump-across off The Mace.  I never get t...
Jake Jones wrote:
I stick clip because I don't want the guy that's going to lead the route to get hurt.


Nice.

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Dec 10, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
Russ Keane wrote:
Right- It is lame of me to judge others. I know. But ask yourself this: If someone brought a ladder, and used it to place their first piece of gear on a trad lead, and clipped it, then came down and started their lead -- Would this also be ok?


Yes, because whether someone someone stick clips or ladder clips or stands on the shoulders of the tallest person to clip or rodeo clips a permadraw or sends and leaves the first draw clipped, has ZERO bearing on consequence on how I choose to climb.

Are you seriously saying it affects you negatively to even see someone else stick clip a first bolt? If that bothers you, you must stay pissed all the time at everything. Stick clipping is pretty low on the list for things that you can see that don't affect you at all but still piss you off. Here are a few I can think of that are higher on the list above it but still mean just about nothing:

Seeing someone get bullied.
A non-handicapped douche parking in a handicapped spot.
Someone munching a candybar in line before they pay for it.
Someone walking by a piece of trash multiple times expending more effort trying to look like they didn't see it than they would to actually pick it up.
Parents that let kids run wild.
Shitty belaying in another party.
Women that refuse to wax obvious facial hair.
Parking crooked or "encroaching on the line".

Life is full of pitfalls that affect us in no way whatsoever. Act accordingly.

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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Dec 10, 2013
tanuki
Russ Keane wrote:
Right- It is lame of me to judge others. I know. But ask yourself this: If someone brought a ladder, and used it to place their first piece of gear on a trad lead, and clipped it, then came down and started their lead -- Would this also be ok? No judgment, right? A ladder. So at some point there is a line in the sand. You DO impose yourself on others. I personally do not like stick clipping, and I don't like seeing others use it. I enjoy the vicarious enjoyment of seeing others clean lead sport climbs, especially the bottom sections. I LOVE the first bolt of climbs. I am a boulderer at heart. Stick clipping is just contrary to my taste.


LOL. That has got to be one of the weakest rants ever. Do share, Russ, how long have you been climbing? To what level of climbing proficiency has your bold anti-stick clipping style allowed you to progress? 5.8? 5.9D?

Seriously, while I too appreciate ground-up, onsight climbing, I find your fundamentalist fervor and concern over the style in which others climb to be amusing.

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By CJC
Dec 10, 2013
John Wilder wrote:
I think you are confusing the idea of a trad climb and a sport climb. Sport climbing is, by definition, being able to focus on the movement without worrying about the danger. If the excitement of blowing it getting to the first bolt is what gets you going, thats fine, but I would recommend taking up trad climbing, as it is more in line with the type of adventure you're looking for. One other thing- judging someone for how they choose to enjoy their outdoor experience is pretty lame. Especially when it comes to something as silly as rock climbing.


I know this is a bit OT but your statement brings up some interesting questions. Why does every face (bolted) climb have to be seen as strictly risk-free route? And any run-outs present on a rap-bolted route are criticized as 'artificially manufactured', undesirable and a violation of ethics? What is it about a cliff's lack of natural protection that leads climbers to the expectation of closely-spaced bolts and a safe, sterilized climbing experience? I know there are exceptions like JTree and the Meadows but the vast majority of bolted routes are expected to follow an extremely strict formula of beefy hardware at close, consistently spaced intervals and fixed descent anchors. Is this a reasonable expectation of route-developers, who might feel pressure to put in routes based on these expectations?

Is the popularity of face climbing dependent on it being free from risk? Is this a sign of the pussification of American rock climbing? Fear of injuries from an aging climbing populace? The arguably inevitable conversion of crags into outdoor gyms? Are we just becoming less adventurous and disinclined towards risky endeavors as a society? Are the traditional (historical) values of courage, self-reliance and minimizing impact dying off with the men who created them?

Is there really a multi-page thread debating the use of a stick to clip the first bolt on a sport climb? Truly a sign of the times...

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By Russ Keane
Dec 10, 2013
Where's Waldo?
I definitely deserve the wrath. It's a totally weak rant. I'm just being honest, I don't know what to tell you! Yes I am fairly new to climbing (2 years) and perhaps my views on stick-clipping are reflective of my rookie perspective, and not having ever been on anything higher than a 10. It also may reflect my jaded and depressed attitude in life currently. Or maybe I am a prick.

All I know is, the route is the way it is. Climb it. It's fun to watch people climb the beginning of routes and grunt and sweat up to the first bolt. Do I want to watch people top rope? No. I think half the fun of going to a crag for the day is checking out the styles and sends of others. You have time in between your climbs to scope out the other action. So yes, to that extent the things other people do at a climb interest me.

None of this keeps me up at night, but it's a thread about stick clipping so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

FLAG
By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Dec 10, 2013
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of ...
CJC wrote:
Is there really a multi-page thread debating the use of a stick to clip the first bolt on a sport climb?

there are several

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By Jonathan Dull
From Boone, NC
Dec 10, 2013
Upper pitches on Crescent Tower, Bugaboos.
Russ Keane wrote:
If someone brought a ladder.


What about all the "gumbies" who climb Everest every year? Hardly anyone would ever get through the Khumbu without the ladders, nor would 99% make it to the top without fixed lines the whole way and supplemental oxygen. Even the absolute best climbers on the planet (Ueil, Simon, Conrad, etc.) use the ladders. Are they in a way "stick clipping" through the initial and very first section of Everest? A very stretched analogy I know, nonetheless their using some sort of "aid", if you will, to assist with what could be a very dangerous section; same with the first 20 or so feet a sport climb.

This is a whole different debate in it's self, totally different type and style of climbing, still thought provoking however. It seems that everyone is always debating the Everest debacle year after year. In a way it seems like they may be "stick clipping" to the top of the world. I'm a very unqualified individual to give an opinion on big mountain style and ethics, but I do have an opinion nonetheless. I think all the fixed lines and crap is in bad taste, and has lead to the shit show on Everest.

Personally, stick clipping doesn't bother me too much, I understand not everyone is out to be a trad master badass. If it keeps you out of the hospital and away from a stack of medical bills, I would say it's totally worth it. I don't really use one because I would rather spend my day climbing single pitch trad as opposed to sport, thats just my cup of tea, also probably why I cant climb 5.13 sport. In my neck of the woods we refer to them as "Chicken Sticks" for obvious reasons.

rockandice.com/lates-news/tnb-...

This article talks about the inevitable surge of soon to be "sport" climbers taking it to the crag. Which in my opinion will lead to more gumbies, boom-box, lack of ethics, accidents and ultimately access issues and closure of climbing areas. Again, off topic and a whole different can of worms. Probably shouldn't have posted this but I've already typed it so whatever. Maybe I'll start a whole different thread to debate the Rock and Ice article.

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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Dec 10, 2013
tanuki
Jonathan Dull wrote:
...will lead to more gumbies, boom-box, lack of ethics, accidents and ultimately access issues and closure of climbing areas.


Roadside Crag, RRG. For that matter, the majority of RRG is that way now. Also, Pilot Mountain is a total fucking shitshow. Maybe it should be a different thread, but I agree with you and R&I, the influx of new climber making the transition from gym to crag is going to change many aspects of climbing...

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By Mark Byers
Dec 10, 2013
Profile Pic
Sometimes. It depends on whether I feel like I can safely clip the first bolt.

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By Emil Briggs
Dec 10, 2013
NC Rock Climber wrote:
Roadside Crag, RRG. For that matter, the majority of RRG is that way now. Also, Pilot Mountain is a total fucking shitshow. Maybe it should be a different thread, but I agree with you and R&I, the influx of new climber making the transition from gym to crag is going to change many aspects of climbing...


Ha! Our big family get together for Thanksgiving was on Friday this year. So headed out to Pilot on Thursday and saw one other party the entire day.

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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Dec 10, 2013
tanuki
Wow! That is cool!

I always thought Pilot was a fun place for single pitch easy / moderate climbing. However, the crowds that I found the last few times I was there (2010 or 2011) really turned me off.

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By Emil Briggs
Dec 10, 2013
Unfortunately you're right about the typical weekend scene at Pilot these days. And given the way that the popularity of climbing is increasing it's only going to get worse.

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By Pontoon
From Minneapolis, Minnesota
Jul 28, 2014
I'd just like to point out a potential danger of stick clipping. I have a 25 ft (edit: it's 16' plus my reach) stick clip, so I can get a high second clip sometimes. Yesterday I clipped the carabiner and pulled down just like normal--successful stick clip, or so I thought. As I was climbing past the second bolt, the quickdraw slid down the rope to my belayer. Now I'm 25 feet off the ground with no protection. Luckily I wasn't flailing, so I just clipped the bolt quickly with a draw off my harness. If the draw hadn't popped off, and I fell going for the runout third bolt, I would have seen a potential of a 40 ft ground fall. My guess is that my quickdraw was resting on top of the bolt and that the nose hadn't gone through the bolt hole. The danger is that you can't see the bolt very well when stick clipping so high. My solution will be to inspect the stick clipped draw/bolt with binoculars before climbing and to also stick clip bolt every bolt going up to the highest bolt I want to clip in case I mess up the top bolt.

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By user id
Jul 28, 2014
DUDE! Your ankles....
Pontoon-

That incident was clearly the stick clips fault.
Binoculars? It sounds like you need a telescope.

Tom

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By Tapawingo
Jul 28, 2014
The only time I've used them are on some of the sea cliffs out here in CA, where missing the first bolt means you and your belayer are heading on a 30ft tumble into some rocky, cold water. Otherwise I would maybe consider it if I was trying to project a route that has a high first bolt and is stiff from the start.

FLAG


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