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Do you stick clip? Why or why not?
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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Sep 16, 2013

Brendan Blanchard wrote:
Or in some case the second bolt is pretty common as well, such as on Whip Tide. But it's aid anyway because of the ladder. Sigh... Seriously though, up until I climbed 11's or so at Rumney stick clipping to me meant climbing up to the bolt, clipping and downclimbing before a redpoint. Now I actually stick clip where necessary :) Many a climb at Rumney has no need for a stickclip, but there are just as many (mostly harder routes) that are certainly designed with a stickclip in mind.


hehe plenty of easier routes at rumney that I stick clip even though i've done them dozens of times. would be really stupid to hurt myself slipping on a warm up to save 5 seconds. ie i stick clip Yoda every time. depends on the opening moves and landing zone.


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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Sep 16, 2013

The Stoned Master wrote:
Until this past weekend I had never stick clipped a single bolt. I was eyeing up a route and the first bolt was a bit high (relative). Not terrible but I was definitly aware of the distance between me and the first bolt. A dude had a telescoping stick clipper and offered it. I turned him down at first but ended up using his stick clip. I am totally "on the fence" about using a stick clip. The "just have fun" and be safe part of me sees the appeal of using a stick clip. But another part (or two) of me sees using a stick clip as a "robber" of the full experience. Do you use a stick clip? Why or why not?

If you feel the route is not to safe without clipping the first bolt, use a stick clip. Trust me, you wont care about style if you are sitting in the ER with a broken leg because you dident use a stick clip. I have seen it happen more than once.

With that said, I always carry a small collapsible stick clip when sport climbing, but I only use it on 3-5% of the routes I climb. For the most part I feel comfortable climbing to the first bolt without the rope clipped, but occasionally the route might have a hard move before the first bolt, in which I will stick clip it. If I am ever unsure of my ability to safely reach the bolt, I will stick clip it. It's just not worth the risk for a single pitch sport line.


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By Peter Jackson
From Rumney, NH
Sep 17, 2013
Just in case the two big belay anchors aren't obvious enough for you, here is where to find the belay station.

Jake D. wrote:
hehe plenty of easier routes at rumney that I stick clip even though i've done them dozens of times. would be really stupid to hurt myself slipping on a warm up to save 5 seconds. ie i stick clip Yoda every time. depends on the opening moves and landing zone.


+1

I've seen more people deck on Lies and Propaganda (5.9) than on anything else. And the person who decked clipping the first bolt of Truth In Advertising (5.7) last year went to the hospital.

The landing is more than 50% of the stick clip equation, IMO.


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By nicelegs
From Denver
Sep 17, 2013

The problem with a stick clip is remembering to bring it. I've got a great one, it lives in my truck, and yet I still managed to eat dirt a couple times this summer because I forgot it.

So much of the front range is bolted for no stick clips, so I forget that I still need it other places.


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By C. Archibald
Sep 17, 2013
Leading On the Up and Up

Stick clips are like dogs. They're fun to play with, but I don't want to own one.

On the few occasions that I've stick clipped, I've used a stick... like off the ground... and a little climbing tape. I never want to own the telescoping, manufactured stick clip covered in climbing stickers. I don't want to carry it around. It also wouldn't be that valuable to me because sport climbing is not my number one.


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By nicelegs
From Denver
Sep 17, 2013

C. Archibald wrote:
Stick clips are like dogs. They're fun to play with, but I don't want to own one. On the few occasions that I've stick clipped, I've used a stick... like off the ground... and a little climbing tape. I never want to own the telescoping, manufactured stick clip covered in climbing stickers. I don't want to carry it around. It also wouldn't be that valuable to me because sport climbing is not my number one.


So what is your point? You don't sport climb, you barely climb trad (yes, I looked at your profile), so why are you commenting?


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By Woodchuck ATC
Sep 17, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

I read somewhere on either Redriverclimbing or on Ricks personal facebook page, that Webers are making, providing a handful of stick clips at Muir Valley for loan to those in need who arrive first. Encouraging those in need to borrow and use, to avoid the low falls that have been leading to some senseless rescues needed this season is my guess.

Webers go so far out of their way to make climbing as safe as possible to all the noob's who show up there. Rescue radios, sticks, trail maps and markers, lost and found contacts, rattlesnake sightings reported, new bathrooms down on the valley floor this season,, AND a rumored full service cash-only snack bar in 2015 we hope!!!


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By Jeff Thilking
From Knoxville, TN
Sep 17, 2013
Rap

My logic: to improve my climbing, I need to practice routes that are a bit too tough for me. One route in particular has the crux at the first couple of moves, so I clip it. A lot of routes at the Obed have a high first bolt. It beats falling about 12 feet to jaggedness. When that move becomes easy, I won't clip it first. Don't feel like I'm cheating myself or anyone else.


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By Ralph Swansen
From Denver CO
Sep 17, 2013
Escalante Canyon

I have climbed trad only for years and recently have been to a few famous sport venues. First off, I must say I like it much more than I thought I would being that it is a different style of climbing than trad and the moves are very much fun combined with the easy factor of not dealing with alot of gear. At Rifle, I found that I could fairly easily climb to the first bolt without too much fear but had to back off a few times due to difficult moves being down low. Smith Rocks was a completely different experience. First bolts being 20+ feet up with sustained moves at the difficulty rating of the climb leading to the bolt. I found myself borrowing stick clips or leading easier adjacent climbs just so I could lower down and place a draw on the climb I originally wanted. I was perplexed saying things like "I thought sport was supposed to be safer than trad" and "I need an effing boulder pad just to climb here!" Although I am grateful for the efforts of the people who have bolted these wonderful routes, I couldn't figure out why there aren't a couple of bolts down low? I really don't want to carry a stick around at a sport crag where needing less stuff is one of the advantages of area! Nonetheless, I will Have a stick the next time I visit a sport crag because busting my legs up is not my idea of a good time.


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By Jeff Thilking
From Knoxville, TN
Sep 17, 2013
Rap

C. Archibald wrote:
Stick clips are like dogs. They're fun to play with, but I don't want to own one. On the few occasions that I've stick clipped, I've used a stick... like off the ground... and a little climbing tape. I never want to own the telescoping, manufactured stick clip covered in climbing stickers. I don't want to carry it around. It also wouldn't be that valuable to me because sport climbing is not my number one.


I wasn't aware these came all stickered up. And you can build one from shit at Lowe's for $20. Used one as a replacement tent pole once, and also to move a rattlesnake off route without harming it or me. No one is gonna second-guess the circumference of your nuts if they see a stick clip strapped to your pack.


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By slim
Administrator
Sep 17, 2013
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

C. Archibald wrote:
Stick clips are like dogs. They're fun to play with, but I don't want to own one. On the few occasions that I've stick clipped, I've used a stick... like off the ground... and a little climbing tape. I never want to own the telescoping, manufactured stick clip covered in climbing stickers. I don't want to carry it around. It also wouldn't be that valuable to me because sport climbing is not my number one.


yeah, but who needs a stick clip for 5.9 routes? that's like hiking.


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By Jon Powell
From LAWRENCEVILLE GEORGIA
Sep 17, 2013
stone depot

Why is this even a question? Who cares what others think. If you want to stick clip stick clip if you don't don't. Since when did we have to have the approval of other climbers before we do something. As long as we are safe and not bothering the climbers around us do what you want to do.


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By doligo
Sep 17, 2013
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style

Jon Powell wrote:
Why is this even a question? Who cares what others think.


+1

Also, do people pay attention to which forum this is? It's in the "Sport Climbing" - read the header before making fools of yourselves. It's like going into the "Mountaineering" forum and lecturing how the Gri-Gri belay method is far superior over the hip-belay.


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By Mike
From Phoenix
Sep 17, 2013
Doing the jump-across off The Mace.  I never get tired of this climb.  Photo by Wednesday Hugus.

Wow there are several defensive posts in this thread despite nobody criticizing stick-clipping. Barely a peep from the Trad Ethics Mafia, yet one would think there was an argument going on.

Like everyone else in this thread, I see nothing wrong with stick clipping or sport climbing. In fact, I enjoy sport climbing very much! Climb however you like, as long as you are honest about it. I've never stick-clipped (not that there is anything wrong with that!) but have occasionally employed the much less studly human stick-clip, where you get your partner to hang the draws, then leave the first one clipped when pulling the rope.

However since nobody else is playing devil's advocate, when I hear statements such as these:

Will S wrote:
...risk isn't really supposed to be part of the equation.


and

JCM wrote:
...sport climbing is engineered to take out as much of the risk as possible... you seek to set up a system such that all of the risk/safety factors are dealt with ahead of time, or are int he hands of the belayer, such that the climber can focus entirely on trying really really hard.


It makes me wonder why you don't just top-rope then? If your goal is to remove the risk of danger & focus entirely on the hardest moves possible, the top-roping seems most appropriate. Most people can generally TR harder moves than they can lead, and TR would often remove even more of the risk. Furthermore you are already top-roping the first bolt or 2 anyway. Yet in my own personal experience, many of the pro-stickclipping crowd seem to look down on top-roping.

Again, I see nothing wrong with stick-clipping or sport ethics in general; it's just something I've wondered about. Maybe someone here can educate me?


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Sep 17, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

20 kN wrote:
If you feel the route is not to safe without clipping the first bolt, use a stick clip. Trust me, you wont care about style if you are sitting in the ER with a broken leg because you dident use a stick clip. I have seen it happen more than once. With that said, I always carry a small collapsible stick clip when sport climbing, but I only use it on 3-5% of the routes I climb. For the most part I feel comfortable climbing to the first bolt without the rope clipped, but occasionally the route might have a hard move before the first bolt, in which I will stick clip it. If I am ever unsure of my ability to safely reach the bolt, I will stick clip it. It's just not worth the risk for a single pitch sport line.


bam. Couldn't have put it better myself. +1


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By Jason Todd
From Ranchester, WY
Sep 17, 2013
DT

Stick clipping doesn't detract from "style points" unless it is on an aid route. Then it is kind of funny.

Check out pic #8.
www.elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-61813


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By C. Archibald
Sep 17, 2013
Leading On the Up and Up

You guys are very defensive of your right to carry stick clips! I
must have hit the right nerve. Don't worry, boys, I'm not trying to take your sticks away!


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By D.Buffum
Sep 17, 2013
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008

If you blow the clip while trying to clip above your head then the fall factor will be lesser than if you blow the clip at your waist because you will have more rope out.

Significantly lesser? Probably not. But it might make a difference if the piece below you is marginal.


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By Mike
From Phoenix
Sep 17, 2013
Doing the jump-across off The Mace.  I never get tired of this climb.  Photo by Wednesday Hugus.

D.Buffum wrote:
If you blow the clip while trying to clip above your head then the fall factor will be lesser than if you blow the clip at your waist because you will have more rope out. Significantly lesser? Probably not. But it might make a difference if the piece below you is marginal.


Huh? Are you on the right thread?


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Sep 23, 2013
...

"Why is this even a question? Who cares what others think."


BINGO!


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By The Stoned Master
From Millerstown, PA
Sep 23, 2013
Day Lily.

you must care whoever said that (not you locker). why else post and/or check a forum? clearly caring about opinion (since this site is information ran, not pictures, etc) you must.

as a species who lives amongst eachother in a society we should all care what others think and do. what i think youre harping on is wether or not (or how) i use opinions given.

if im not afraid to make decisions without the publics opinion then why is it so bad to know what my peers think and how they feel?

if you claim to not care why are you on this site? masterbating?


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By Bob Dobalina
Sep 23, 2013

I have a telescoping cheater stick.
I got it for big wall aid routes where there might be missing rivets/bolts on the fixed ladder sections. It lives in my haulbag. I have never used it for sport climbing, but I would.

I need to climb harder sport I guess.


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By jarthur
From Westminster, CO
Sep 23, 2013
My dogs got ups yo!

Peter Jackson wrote:
Here in Rumney, a stick clip on the first bolt is common, expected in certain places, and in most cases would not negate a redpoint. Stick clipping the second bolt would negate a redpoint. Please do stick clip if it keeps you safe. And if you get a clean send, then on your next attempt, forgo the stick.


So did everyone in Rumney negate Dave Grahamís first ascent of The Fly because he stick clipped the first AND second bolt? Let's not forget that The Fly has only two bolts, no anchor and is 25-ft. Subsequent ascents also stick clipped the 1st & 2nd bolts of The Fly (Tony Lamiche, Chris Sharma and Luke Parady).

I'm curious how this got listed in the Rumney guides for the FA info? One could argue that the FA should have gone to Jason Kehl for doing the first ropeless ascent since I'm sure most of us would agree that you haven't technically redpointed something until you've led the route without falls. Personally I wouldn't even consider any of these valid redpoints because they were top roped up until Jason Kehl and Kevin Jorgeson came around and soloed the route (or call it a highball boulder problem).


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By Woodchuck ATC
Sep 23, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

When I was at the MotherLode in '07 for the RockTour RRG RockToberFest comps, we were sticking' the first bolt for many a world class climber for a safe, fast competition that day. Never heard a complaint from the crowd or the world class climbers that day. So who are we to complain if a climber wants to safely clip that first 20 ft?


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By ze_dirtbag
From TBD
Sep 23, 2013
cottonmouth

decking hurts


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