dmm revolver carabiners for top rope climbing

Anybody used the dmm revolver carabiner? Looks like it might be good for top roping because of the roller that's built into it. What y'all think?

Usually the top biner is not what is causing the most friction, and if it is, it's never enough to be an issue. Are you thinking to reduce wear on the biner or aluminum on the rope? You could use steel biners instead for TR.

I can't think of any functional problem that this would solve. Of note, DMM revolvers don't work that well as a true pulley. As well, there is no reason you would or should use a pulley for the top of a TR.

I use one on the first bolt when sport climbing but only if I'm sure I won't fall before clipping the second bolt. For that purpose it is very effective.

Honestly, we are all guessing. You should be the brave climber that does this and tells us if it is a good thing. Be the first! Be different!

Otherwise, stainless steel lockers are nice as they wear a lot slower.

Probably a bad idea. You do not want a top rope going through a relatively frictionless top anchor--the belayer gets pulled up until the climber hits the ground (unless the belayer is anchored or drastically outweighs the climber).

PRRose wrote:Probably a bad idea. You do not want a top rope going through a relatively frictionless top anchor--the belayer gets pulled up until the climber hits the ground (unless the belayer is anchored or drastically outweighs the climber).

I can verify this. No, I wasn't using a pulley up top. I led a pitch of ice and at the top I merely walked around a 3 foot diameter ice column at the back of the ledge and lowered off. The next climber up was close to my weight, no more than 10-15% heavier than me. Lowering him was EXCITING like nothing I've ever experienced before. I learned that day that friction is our friend in TR setups.

Stich wrote:Honestly, we are all guessing. You should be the brave climber that does this and tells us if it is a good thing. Be the first! Be different! Otherwise, stainless steel lockers are nice as they wear a lot slower.

I've done it before a long time ago. I've used an actual 3" ball bearing pulley at the top to mess around. Indeed if your climber falls, the belayer is going to get pulled up. If the climber is heavier than the belayer by a reasonable amount, the climber will deck, even from the top of the route. Thus, they are not safe. Top rope falls are still falls and something needs to arrest the force via friction and/ or a weight counterbalance. Without that the climber decks.

A long time ago when I first started climbing outdoors I did exactly what you are asking and used a DMM revolver as a top rope anchor. If you are on sandstone it will jam up and the little roller will wear unevenly. It does reduce friction, but honestly a little bit of friction is your friend. It made the belay job way harder because you had to constantly be paying attention. At the time I liked a stiff belay. Now I like a loop of slack so I'm getting no aid from the rope when I TR harder routes - more closely simulates leading. If I were to fall on the revolver with the slack I like it would pull my belayer of equal weight to me off the ground.

Just use regular carabiners and save the money. I sold the revolver.

Gunks Jesse wrote: It made the belay job way harder because you had to constantly be paying attention.

Best thing I've read in a while. Thank you.

I understand the humor and irony of what i wrote... Perhaps I can clarify - of course your belaying with good technique - I take that for granted, but on TR with experienced climbers who lead softer grades I tend to allow a larger loop to form and not take every time they move. If they fell with the larger loop and a revolver anchor you'd be going for a ride. So... You need to pay more attention and not do hard takes constantly but not let big loops form. A bit more work for sure.

PRRose wrote:Probably a bad idea. You do not want a top rope going through a relatively frictionless top anchor--the belayer gets pulled up until the climber hits the ground (unless the belayer is anchored or drastically outweighs the climber).

This.

You absolutely want friction on your top-rope anchor point.

If you don't mind hauling the weight, using steel biners for the rope biners will reduce the wear on the biners, and the amount of aluminum oxide on your rope. But you want the friction.

I can see the revolver being useful for two things:
1. hauling
2. drag reduction on a wandering trad climb, or one where the gear placements are greatly off-line

Dave - the revolver is an awesome piece of gear in a crevasse rescue kit. It simplifies the setup by having one piece where you would normally have two - a carabiner and pulley. So like you said - for hauling.

Damn that's a bad idea.

Go buy yourself a steel biner from one of those safety sites for people who do commercical rope work. You wont get black alu-oxide all over everything and they usually have a 3 action mechanism to release.

Gunks Jesse wrote:Dave - the revolver is an awesome piece of gear in a crevasse rescue kit. It simplifies the setup by having one piece where you would normally have two - a carabiner and pulley. So like you said - for hauling.

White meat. Or the other white meat. :)

My mentors that first got me into climbing long ago were as much cavers as climbers. The story they relayed about pulleys on top was one where a guy at one level was giving a belay through a pulley for a bigger guy on a higher catwalk ledge. Big guy fell, belayer held on, belayer got smashed into the ceiling at a fairly high right, got knocked unconscious, fell back to the floor and sustained further injuries.

Biners have friction that can be a good thing, allowing you to safely belay someone up to about 50% heavier than you. It doesn't hurt to do a check near the ground by getting tensioned up and sitting back on the rope. A quick check like that makes sure the belayer is big enough, and quickly reminds you if there is a lot of rope stretch to potentially watch out for.

After I posted the question I realized my error in thinking that the pulleys would ease the wear on the rope. Thanks for conformation!

I think we need 17 more people to say the exact same thing.

The exact same thing!

#1

Greg D wrote:I think we need 17 more people to say the exact same thing.

I don't think majority of people actually read the comments and just go ahead and post their opinion

The exact same thing.

#2

My first time toproping I also put a pulley on top. I was heavier than my belayer, and hilarity ensued.