DMM Pivot belay device

Has anyone had the chance to use one and if so how was your experience?

I'd also be curious to hear about people's experience with the Pivot

I've been using one since around July or so, and really, really like it. Went from BD ATC Guide to it, so that is most of my comparison. As far and regular, normal belay for top rope, nothing really different than any other tube device. Lead belay, I think it is smoother when letting rope out, and it still catches fantastically. When rapping, again, very smooth, can get going fast very easily, but doesn't take much pressure to brake. Now for the meat of it, when in guide mode. Far superior than BD ATC Guide in my opinion. The pivot action is amazing. With the BD, especially with rope drag, belaying could be a two handed ordeal to pull out slack as your second climbed, with the pivoting action it is just an easy pull, yet it still locks really easy and well if the climber falls. And if you if need to lower your second for some reason, it is a really easy pull on the sling set up on the front, unlike the BD where again, two handed ordeal. Only thought of concern, is that the BD was one solid piece, and everything is literally hanging on a pin that holds it all together with the Pivot, but I have yet to see any reports or stories of failure, and I have used mine a lot with no problems.

I would have to agree with Mr. Kramer on this.

The Pivot works quite well, and in the same fashion as any ATC. The unique function is when in guide mode. I can actually lift the plate with my thumb to release the rope and no extra gear is needed. This keeps both hands on the rope, but your mileage may vary.

I found that the heat dissipation was not as fast as with my ATC, but I believe the BD ATC has more surface area to bleed off the heat (a bit larger device in the way the side walls are designed). This has not been in any way any type of problem with the function or comfort for me.

The keeper loop is a bit smaller than my BD ATC which at first made it frustrating to unclip the rope but keep the carabiner gate inside the loop so as not to drop the device. A small adjustment on my part to find the solution, though.

Other than that, a great device.

I've been using a Pivot for the past couple months and retired my BD ATC guide to the storage bin. I like it. It works well for all standard belay plate applications and feeds smoothly, is relatively light. I've done a lot of belaying two seconds in guide mode lately, but honestly haven't yet needed to lower someone after the device locks up.

Just messing around with it, using a biner to pivot the device up slowly in guide mode seems to work well and doesn't require much force. Would I use a Munter for the brake strand as a backup in real life situation? Maybe, just in case.

+1 to Mr. Kramer's review.

William Kramer wrote:I've been using one since around July or so, and really, really like it. Went from BD ATC Guide to it, so that is most of my comparison. As far and regular, normal belay for top rope, nothing really different than any other tube device. Lead belay, I think it is smoother when letting rope out, and it still catches fantastically. When rapping, again, very smooth, can get going fast very easily, but doesn't take much pressure to brake. Now for the meat of it, when in guide mode. Far superior than BD ATC Guide in my opinion. The pivot action is amazing. With the BD, especially with rope drag, belaying could be a two handed ordeal to pull out slack as your second climbed, with the pivoting action it is just an easy pull, yet it still locks really easy and well if the climber falls. And if you if need to lower your second for some reason, it is a really easy pull on the sling set up on the front, unlike the BD where again, two handed ordeal. Only thought of concern, is that the BD was one solid piece, and everything is literally hanging on a pin that holds it all together with the Pivot, but I have yet to see any reports or stories of failure, and I have used mine a lot with no problems.

Thanks William,

One question, you mention the rappelling speed, I find with my size (180#+rack, 9.5mm rope) that on the atc guide I go too fast on rappel unless I use 2 biners for increased friction. Am I going to go even faster on the Pivot?

In regards to lowering BTW, with the atc guide it seems a munter backup is recommended for lowering, I would imagine I'd do that with the Pivot too. I personally know someone who has been dropped and injured because the backup belay method was skipped with the atc guide. So two handed with either device, in my opinion.

Ive been using the Pivot pretty extensively for the past few months, so I'll offer my thoughts.

I've used the Pivot in single and Multipitch trad climbing, both guiding and personal climbing. I've done lead belaying with single and double ropes, top rope belay, and guide mode belay with one and two followers, with ropes between 8.5 and 10.3. To test the pivot, I've probably done about 1000ft of lowering in guide mode on slabby and steep terrain.

The pivot is an excellent belay device, and does what it says it will do very well. Rope feed is as smooth or maybe smother than my rather worn atc guide in all modes, and rappelling is super smooth as well (on regular friction side, didn't test high friction side in rappelling cause I never use that). Catches lead falls easily in high friction mode.

Now, on to what everybody's wondering about: the pivot actually works! On numberous occasions I've brought climbers up to anchors and just lowered them straight back down with the pivot guide mode (where previously I would usually switch munter or redirect). Even with a climbers full weight on the rope, Ive found I can easily and smoothly start giving slack by just pushing or pulling up the carabiner in the "lowering hole". I can control the speed of the lower all the way to the ground with very little effort. The best kind of carabiner for this function is one that fit through the hole enough to close, but not rotate all the around. BD vapor lock and camp photon locker have both worked well here for me. It's also easy to just give a bit of slack while climbers are on route.

The one thing I don't like, which is true for other guide mode devices as well, is that when you're lowering one climber, the other rope is not locked off, so you've got to tie off or hold on to the rope you want staying put while you lower the other one. I'd love it if the device could keep the stationary rope locked off while lowering the other. I've seen a video of the climbing technologies Be Up which claims to do this, but don't know how easy the actually lowering will be with it since it doesn't have the pivot design.

One last thing, the DMM pivot obviously doesn't have assisted braking capabilities. However it does everything else way better than the edelrid megajul so it's what I usually carry now. On Multipitch where I'm leading everything, I'll usually give my belayer the megajul and I'll use the pivot.

I'm going to second everything that's been said. I use the pivot (upgraded from the Reverso) which is actually also made by DMM and love it. It's my go too belay device, and it's works great. It's especially useful for lowering in guide mode, which most people don't do often. However, the convenience of being able to lower a second slightly or easily give slack makes this the obvious belay device for any multipitch climbing. I wouldn't consider anything else.

Had mine since around July. Upgraded from a very worn BD guide. Not going to restate what's been said, but was also concerned about the pivot pins (I know - it's tested, etc, but being a new product I don't want to be the one to find out about an issue). Solution is simple. Set up in guide mode and in addition I tie a clove to the bottom of the belay biner and run back to anchor. Essentially doubles up the master point in case the pins fail. No issues so far so I really stopped doing it. But if it worries you, then...

Also noticed their anodizing is very hard. After lots of rappelling and belaying it hasn't worn off the rope wear surfaces like my BD does almost instantly.

Rappel speed: I'm 210 pounds and rapping on a 9.5 mm single strand with gear is fine. Caveat: I tie an autoblock below and clip it to my leg loop then keep my hand on it to avoid burn and regulate speed, so that may be an unfair comparison for someone not using a backup.

Edit: the eye at the release point is significantly larger than other guide styles. In addition to the mechanical advantage of the pivot you can actually fit a normal racking biner through it. I use a small wired stopper clipped to a biner if I need to lower still out of habit, but you can actually fish the nose of most small biners through.

From Chris at DMM with regards to the "pin" in the Pivot Device.

"The pin is 174PH Stainless steel which is a heat treatable stainless. It is like a spindle on a cam and riveted in place. It has been tested to 16kn loaded with one or two ropes so is very strong indeed."

Looks like a really cool upgrade to a traditional tube style belay device. I'm definitely interested.

I got the DMM Pivot about a month ago and love it. I also noticed the anodizing process is solid! After lots of use this past month it still looks brand new. Rapping is silky smooth, belaying is easy I retired my ATC Guide to the bag. I still want to fully explore the lowering functionality we did some simple tests and it was smooth.

DMM Pivot

This is a small thing but at least with thick ropes I find the Pivot to have less friction than other tube-style devices with teeth. A little less than the Petzl Reverso 4, and much less than the BD ATC-XP. Whether this is good or bad is personal preference.

Optimistic wrote:In regards to lowering BTW, with the atc guide it seems a munter backup is recommended for lowering, I would imagine I'd do that with the Pivot too. I personally know someone who has been dropped and injured because the backup belay method was skipped with the atc guide. So two handed with either device, in my opinion.

When I say 2 handed affair, referring to pulling slack out with both hands and sometimes body weight pulling slack when belaying a second up in guide mode, and having to use both hands tugging on some release built up with a redirect, where as with the Pivot belaying a second up is as easy as belaying from the ground slack pulling wise, and as far as lowering, it is so easy that you can do it by just lifting the device by hand if you desire.

Optimistic wrote: Thanks William, One question, you mention the rappelling speed, I find with my size (180#+rack, 9.5mm rope) that on the atc guide I go too fast on rappel unless I use 2 biners for increased friction. Am I going to go even faster on the Pivot?

I think it does if you rap off your belay loop, takes a little more pressure to stop and hold, but if you use a 24" sling it's no different than a BD

Wow, I had no idea these work so well! I wonder if someone will merge the features with say the features on the edelrid mega jul . . . I've always used my Camp Ovo to bring up followers, it saves the arms. I'd be nice to carry just one device though!

Any more recent opinions on the Pivot? I currently use a Reverso 4, and I don't care so much about how easy it is to lower a second with the Pivot. My main question is ease of pulling in slack when in guide mode. The Reverso 4 usually requires one hand to pull in slack and another hand to pull the slack through the device due to the amount of friction at the device. Provided there is little rope drag, is it easy enough to pull slack through the Pivot one handed?

I like it. My partner who has a Reverso says it feeds very similarly when belaying a leader. As far as bringing up a second, I have been able to pull in one handed, but I wouldn't say it's practical all the time. It's noticeable easier than a BD ATC Guide, though. And lowering is just as nice as they say, I just throw a redirect through the anchor above it and hook a carabiner in the nose to lever with and get a smooth lower.

The pivot is smoother then my old mammut guide device. 10/10 would recommend

I love my Pivot, lowering a second is really easy to do, unlike with the atc guide/reverso. easily done with one hand. DMM's products really are second to none.