By Donno
Nov 3, 2009
| I suggest two new rules for adding routes:
- 1. you must include a photo
- 2. you must have climbed the route in the last year
| 
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By WiledHorse
From NoGo
Nov 3, 2009
| there are already too many rules. |
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By David Aguasca!
From Plymouth, NH
Nov 3, 2009
| I agree with Wiled. Besides, how do you enforce #2? |
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By Nate Brown
From Wilson, Wy
Nov 3, 2009
| When I first learned of this site, I was psyched because it gave me an online place to cataloge big routes I've done without too much effort.
I then got eager and added some lesser-known, badass bigwall routes that I did not put up but had climbed. My good friend Jersey Dave(already a project user) sent me an email asking me if Klaus (another friend of ours and first ascensionist with "no-topo" ethics) would appreciate it if he saw "Lucifer's Ladder" on some website. I thought about it for a while and decided to erase the routes I had not either put up or had something to do with the FFAs...
The more I think about it, the more I believe that many routes will never get posted if we wait for the FA party to do it. So, perhaps it is best if we all make an effort to only post a route if you actually know the route and area well, and if you take the time to add nice photos and a topo if possible.
Blow by blow, pitch by pitch with a bunch of opinionated slants about wether it is R or X, junk or sweet, stinky or 4 star... can get annoying. A simple topo and some nice photos will do.
Rants... |
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By saxfiend
Administrator
From Atlanta, GA
Nov 3, 2009
| Donno wrote: I suggest two new rules for adding routes: *1. you must include a photo
Disagree. When was the last time you saw a guidebook with a photo for each and every documented route?
Donno wrote: *2. you must have climbed the route in the last year
I prefer seeing people post only routes they've climbed, but as David already said, making this a rule would be pointless due to unenforceability.
As an admin, when I see a "junk" route on MP, I'll do one of the following: ask the submitter to rewrite it; rewrite it myself if I've done the climb; re-assign it to someone else who's done the climb; or if none of the above works, I'll just delete it so it can be resubmitted by someone who can do it right. I suspect I'm not the only admin who does this.
JL |
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By Chris treggE
Administrator
From Madison, WI
Nov 3, 2009
| Shades of grey.
It's best to have a photo when posting a route. But if you don't have one, as long as you know the route, post it up. Someone will eventually get a pic of it. The site is a constant work in progress.
Likewise, it's best to have done a climb to post it IMO. However, if it's a quality description of a line you are not up to yet, and you know the line pretty well, then post it up. Many hard lines would not be on here if someone who has sent it is required to post. This route comes to mind but I am sure there are many others. If the route description sucks, an admin can delete, alter, or reassign it to someone who can do a better job.
To the OP: do you have a specific example of concern? |
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By Ron L Long
From Out yonder in Wisco.
Nov 3, 2009
| Buff Johnson wrote: every 4-star route requires a stone nude
Only if it includes one of the "Women of MP"...... |
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By WiledHorse
From NoGo
Nov 3, 2009
| whatever happened to climbing being a sense of adventure? exploring the unknown? imagination?
personally if i come across a route that intrigues me, i will go climb the thing and see for myself. if it is good and i want ot share that experience with others, i will post up.
would climbing really be that fulfilling/satisfying if everything was laid out for you?
lastly, is it really that bad for someone to post a route with whatever info they have just to get it out there to encourage other folk to add to it?
having said all that, i suppose what could be helpful is incorporating "useful" information gathered from comments into the main description. this does occur in isolated circumstances. (for example if enough people confirm a rap distance is 35m instead of 30m, it usually gets changed by the admins...)
EDIT: or hell, if you really dont like the limited available info, take the initiative and write a guidebook the way you want it to be. thats what i did. |
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By Beagle
From Your Mama
Nov 3, 2009
| saxfiend wrote: I prefer seeing people post only routes they've climbed, but as David already said, making this a rule would be pointless due to unenforceability. JL
It is pointless to make any rule (or on a larger scale, law) that is unenforceable. Maybe a group consensus feature that allows for elimination of poor/uninformative route additions. See the Mill Creek, UT section for a some great examples of this. |
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By Andy Librande
From Denver, CO
Nov 3, 2009
| Personally the only thing I don't like is when I see someone with a lot of routes/photos/etc posted and they barely have any "Great" votes.
Requiring people to upload a photo even if they are not good just results in more butt-shots and shitty photos. Some people are just not good photographers. |
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By JPVallone
Nov 3, 2009
| WiledHorse wrote: whatever happened to climbing being a sense of adventure? exploring the unknown? imagination? personally if i come across a route that intrigues me, i will go climb the thing and see for myself. if it is good and i want ot share that experience with others, i will post up. would climbing really be that fulfilling/satisfying if everything was laid out for you? lastly, is it really that bad for someone to post a route with whatever info they have just to get it out there to encourage other folk to add to it? having said all that, i suppose what could be helpful is incorporating "useful" information gathered from comments into the main description. this does occur in isolated circumstances. (for example if enough people confirm a rap distance is 35m instead of 30m, it usually gets changed by the admins...) EDIT: or hell, if you really dont like the limited available info, take the initiative and write a guidebook the way you want it to be. thats what i did.
Wild horse I am confused, you don't like the beta from what I can gather because you don't think climbing is fulfilling or satisyfing with it laid out for you. Youl like the sense of adventure and feel of imagination and exploration, and feel this has gone away?
On the contrary you want to have confirmation beta as to wether a rappel is 30 or 35m
Or if you dont like the beta here write a guidebook like you did.
So where do you stand? What is useful information according to you, some people find photos and topos really useful!
1 purist sense of adventure don't want the beta,
2 I just want the details like rappel lengths so I can still have sense of adventure but someone else can tell me what gear to bring
3 Do what you did and everyone should write guidebooks? |
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By Dave C
From Grand Junction, CO
Nov 3, 2009
| saxfiend wrote: Disagree. When was the last time you saw a guidebook with a photo for each and every documented route?
i don't think that every route needs a picture, but guidebooks have space limitations that web sites do not.
This is actually the easiest place to have a ton of pictures, and I would like to see more, making it a rule seems kinda dumb to me though. |
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By JPVallone
Nov 3, 2009
| Dave C wrote: i don't think that every route needs a picture, but guidebooks have space limitations that web sites do not. This is actually the easiest place to have a ton of pictures, and I would like to see more.
I agree Dave
and on another note, It seems that the normal standard for every guide book that is coming out now is choked with photos and that is the only guidebook people are buying now a days. In the last year has there been any new guidebooks without extensive photos, Guidebooks without photos are going away. |
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By WiledHorse
From NoGo
Nov 3, 2009
| JPVallone wrote: Wild horse I am confused, you don't like the beta from what I can gather because you don't think climbing is fulfilling or satisyfing with it laid out for you. Youl like the sense of adventure and feel of imagination and exploration, and feel this has gone away? On the contrary you want to have confirmation beta as to wether a rappel is 30 or 35m Or if you dont like the beta here write a guidebook like you did. So where do you stand? What is useful information according to you, some people find photos and topos really useful! 1 purist sense of adventure don't want the beta, 2 I just want the details like rappel lengths so I can still have sense of adventure but someone else can tell me what gear to bring 3 Do what you did and everyone should write guidebooks?
dont get me wrong, i use/enjoy photos, topos, beta as much as many users of this site. and i contribute the same. in fact i probably am guilty of going overboard at times. i was merely posing some questions for discussion, but i see how that could be misinterpreted. my point is folks posting a route should still have their freedom to participate as much or as little as they want. pics are bonus. beta and spray can be bonus/entertaining. inaccurate information is troublesome. strict rules and expectations are no fun. not everyone carries a camera or thinks to take a picture of everything they see. no i dont think everyone should write a guidebook.
Would it be nice to see more info on routes that currently have little? sure, sometimes.
Do i expect it? No.
does that make sense? |
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By stonyman killough
Administrator
From hartselle, Alabama
Nov 3, 2009
| I'll just delete it so it can be resubmitted by someone who can do it right. I suspect I'm not the only admin who does this.
Yes! This is what makes a good admin. Well said John! |
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By John Maguire
From Boulder, CO
Nov 3, 2009
| Not sure I agree with the "new" rules but the photo one isn't that unenforceable. It would be pretty simple computer code to make uploading a picture required prior to submitting a new route...
Now for requiring one has done the route...MP Task Force? I could use a part time job anyway... |
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By tcamillieri
From Denver
Nov 3, 2009
| Ron L Long wrote: Only if it includes one of the "Women of MP"......
There are women of MP? |
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By Joshua Balke
From Colorado Springs
Nov 4, 2009
| saxfiend wrote: Disagree. When was the last time you saw a guidebook with a photo for each and every documented route? I prefer seeing people post only routes they've climbed, but as David already said, making this a rule would be pointless due to unenforceability. As an admin, when I see a "junk" route on MP, I'll do one of the following: ask the submitter to rewrite it; rewrite it myself if I've done the climb; re-assign it to someone else who's done the climb; or if none of the above works, I'll just delete it so it can be resubmitted by someone who can do it right. I suspect I'm not the only admin who does this. JL
+1 |
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By Adam Winters
Administrator
From Bishop, CA
Nov 4, 2009
| half of this site would be wiped out if these silly rules were enforced. |
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By jack roberts
Nov 4, 2009
| RULE #1: No more new rules...........
RULE #2: Do not break rule #1.........
Add some adventure and just go out there and find out for yourself. |
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By Donno
Nov 6, 2009
| Adam, I'm not suggesting we go back and "wipe out 1/2 the site", rather we up the quality of future entries. There was a time when any crap thrown up on the site was appreciated, but that time has past.
Like many of the rules; these would not be enforced, they are guidelines like "don't be a jerk".
As far as the photo; I'm suggesting a "beta" photo that locates the route, not a butt-shot.
To those who feel a photo ruins the sense of adventure; just don't look at the route descriptions - after all, it is not the purpose of this site to preserve adventure. |
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By WiledHorse
From NoGo
Nov 6, 2009
| Donno wrote: To those who feel a photo ruins the sense of adventure; just don't look at the route descriptions - after all, it is not the purpose of this site to preserve adventure.
you missed the point. posting a photo does not ruin the sense of adventure.
but expecting OTHERS to kind of ruins the fun and folks individuality/freedom.
post the highest quality route posts you can. if there is a route that isnt described good enough or doesnt have the beta or pic you want, take some initiative and show us how its done, or there are plenty examples of well done route posts on this site. |
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By Mark Roth
From Boulder
Nov 6, 2009
| Most people agree that you shouldn't add a route that you haven't climbed. That sounds reasonable, but it leaves us with an incomplete data base. What about routes that are too hard or scary to be repeated? I'd like to see them added for historical purposes... Even if the info isn't 100% accurate, I'd still like to know the route exists. That way bold groundbreaking accents won't fade into obscurity and I can read about them while I drink my coffee...
Oh yeah, might help protect them from retro-bolting as well... |
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