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By Evan1984
Jan 5, 2011
deleted

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By RockinOut
From NY, NY
Jan 5, 2011
Gear
You should contact ebay about the fraud...they have people that look deeper into these kinds of things.

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Jan 5, 2011
My kinda simian
Sorry, not near as good as the Draw Thief video.

By the looks of it he "strung you along" for a day and a half? Seems fairly standard due diligence when purchasing something over the internet IMHO. Is he a douchebag for taking your exact pictures and description and posting them on eBay before actually buying the jacket, sure. But I didn't see any sign that you had other offers that you turned down because of this guy, or that he strung you along for a week. You offered a price and found a potential buyer at that price. If he wants to put the time and energy into reselling it for a profit that's his deal. Welcome to capitalism.

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By Buff Johnson
Jan 5, 2011
smiley face
I don't really see a problem. People buy and sell all kinds of property based on not having the funds in expectation of a future transaction all the time.

They aren't marketing stolen goods.

If they sent you funds which weren't good, then I'd be pissed.

If you agreed to hold the jacket for them, then you made your decision.

If they sell the jacket, get you the funds, what's the problem?

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By Wayne
From Superior, CO
Jan 5, 2011
Looks like he was dealing on this thread also:

mountainproject.com/v/for_sale...
(Kalan aka Jeep1212? Jeep1212 is a new id)

Also on mountainproject.com/v/for_sale... (as sold to Kalan aka Jeep1212)

This is a good warning for others that might be strung along on sales also, but bottom line is pretty much what the two above me say. It does leave a bad taste if your thinking your selling to a fellow MP'er for a decent price vs ebay.

In general, I think it would be a good guideline for sellers to beware of new id's - It's easy enough to take a quick look.

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By Robert Buswold
From Longmont, CO
Jan 5, 2011
Clear Creek Canyon, Capitalist Crag
Ryan Kelly wrote:
Sorry, not near as good as the Draw Thief video. By the looks of it he "strung you along" for a day and a half? Seems fairly standard due diligence when purchasing something over the internet IMHO. Is he a douchebag for taking your exact pictures and description and posting them on eBay before actually buying the jacket, sure. But I didn't see any sign that you had other offers that you turned down because of this guy, or that he strung you along for a week. You offered a price and found a potential buyer at that price. If he wants to put the time and energy into reselling it for a profit that's his deal. Welcome to capitalism.


I think your missing the point here... the problem is that he tried to resell the item without even having the item in hand in the first place. For one, what if something happened and the sale fell through the in first place? Then the person that bought the jacket from the fraud is out his money, or at the very least has to go through the hassle of filing a complaint with eBay/Paypal. Bottom line is you don't sell something that's not yours... even if it *might* be yours in the near future.

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By Erik W
From Bay Area, CA
Jan 5, 2011
North face of Ama Dablam - taken on approach to Kongma La.
Pretty common arbitrage tactic for ebay pros. There are actually people who make a good living off this form of 'sell first buy later'. Many will look for an item with BuyItNow of $X here, and relist it in the EU with the same pics.... then have the domestic seller actually ship it directly to the buyer in the EU, instructing them not to include a price receipt because it is a "present" for a family member. Boom, money made.

It's a risk, because sometimes between the time the EU person has bought the item and the go-between gets a chance to buy the item in the US the item has already sold. But then they just say item got damaged while preparing to ship, or something, and refund... no negative feedback, and nobody is the wiser.

Specialized classified forums like ours here at MP, or cycling sites, make it that much easier because someone can string a seller along without the risk of someone else swooping in and hitting a BuyItNow button.

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By kevin murphy
From Lafayette, Colorado
Jan 5, 2011
road
Many people do business that way. I don't really see a problem He is seeing if there is a market for an item he sees as a good value, to make a PROFIT. Just my point of view.

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Jan 5, 2011
My kinda simian
Robert Buswold wrote:
I think your missing the point here... the problem is that he tried to resell the item without even having the item in hand in the first place. For one, what if something happened and the sale fell through the in first place? Then the person that bought the jacket from the fraud is out his money, or at the very least has to go through the hassle of filing a complaint with eBay/Paypal. Bottom line is you don't sell something that's not yours... even if it *might* be yours in the near future.



No Robert, I didn't miss that point at all. I agree that it's kinda lame, and as a seller I'd want to know if a potential buyer had a history of this - as I'd prefer to sell my gear at a good price to someone who will actually use it and appreciate the deal, then someone who is just out to make a buck. However, and as Mark also pointed out, this kind of thing happens all the damn time. It happens in the business world with multi-million dollar deals and big promises.

Sure the guy misrepresented what he had - or in this case, didn't. And I dunno, maybe eBay has some sort of clause in the fine print against this. But basically he was feeling out the market. I find it more offensive that he reused the pics and description verbatim than he offered up something he doesn't have. I disagree with your 'bottom line'. I do think that it's 'lame', for lack of a better word, but not fraud.

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By AJS
From Boulder, CO
Jan 5, 2011
In the sea of Cortez - Baja California, Mexico
I guess this stuff happens all the time...but, here's a warning if you're gonna try it!

reddit.com/r/funny/comments/em...

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By Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Jan 5, 2011
RMNP skiing. Photo by Nodin de Saillan
AJS wrote:
I guess this stuff happens all the time...but, here's a warning if you're gonna try it! reddit.com/r/funny/comments/em...


hahaha thats awesome!

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Jan 5, 2011
My kinda simian
AJS wrote:
I guess this stuff happens all the time...but, here's a warning if you're gonna try it! reddit.com/r/funny/comments/em...


That's funny, but also a completely different situation. The purchaser in that situation entered an agreement, through the auction, to purchase the tickets.

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By climber1212
From US
Jan 5, 2011
s

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By Buff Johnson
Jan 5, 2011
smiley face
God Bless 'merica!!

and Paypal

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Jan 5, 2011
My kinda simian
jeep1212 wrote:
So, yes, I was hoping that I could sell it if I didnít fit me -- makes sense, right? -- selling things that donít fit. I was going to buy the parka, try it on, and if it didnít fit, it would already be listed on ebay, so I wouldnít have to wait a week to sell it. Of course I would have taken a new picture and updated the description with my thoughts on the condition. If it fit, I would have just ended the auction.


It probably would have been best if you just stayed silent instead of posting up this bullshit. As a lot of us agreed, you're not a thief, just a douchebag. Your rationale for setting up the auction is just crap.



jeep1212 wrote:
And stay classy Evan!


There's a saying for this... something about a glass house and stones.

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By Cindy Mitchell
Jan 5, 2011
Racking up for the 3rd pitch of Ruper
jeep1212 wrote:
a girl (me). (not to many 300lb climbers out there).


You're a 300 pound female climber? Riiiiiiiight.

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By Steve Pulver
From Williston, ND
Jan 5, 2011
EDIT: (Sorry I should have read all the posts before entering the following)
I guess I don't see the problem. Did he tell you that he is definitely going to buy it, but then not sending a payment because he hasn't sold it on Ebay? Can't you just tell him that you are continuing to look for buyers until you receive payment from someone?

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By Erik W
From Bay Area, CA
Jan 5, 2011
North face of Ama Dablam - taken on approach to Kongma La.
Ryan Kelly wrote:
[regarding jeep1212's reply] It probably would have been best if you just stayed silent instead of posting up this bullshit. As a lot of us agreed, you're not a thief, just a douchebag. Your rationale for setting up the auction is just crap.


+1, absolute crap. And I mean ABSOLUTE crap.

Plus your "possible $20" profit is BS; you know damn well your margin starts at $38 based on your opening price and Evan's quoted $268 for Priority.

Lastly, Evan's built social equity on this site by contributing over the years, we certainly trust and consider him one of our own long before someone who just joined 3 days ago... so if you're going to try and call him out and drop backhanded insults you better come with some better shit than the above.

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By kachoong
From The Outback, Texas
Jan 5, 2011
Climbing at Frog Buttress
Cindy Mitchell wrote:
You're a 300 pound female climber? Riiiiiiiight.


This is what I was thinking.

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By Buff Johnson
Jan 5, 2011
smiley face
At 300, Those have got to be some seriously large tits

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By Brian in SLC
Jan 5, 2011
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch
Erik W wrote:
Plus your "possible $20" profit is BS; you know damn well your margin starts at $38 based on your opening price and Evan's quoted $268 for Priority.


Geez, my math is poor or did I see the eBay listing at 350, with 20 bucks for shipping? That's 268 v 370.

That ain't a $38 buck profit.

This stuff is pretty amazing. I can't imagine its legal to list something for sale that you don't have possession of. Businesses get shut down on doing that. Maybe individuals get away with it because they're smaller fish?

Pretty shady at the least. Talk about hedging bets. Something to keep an eye out for, to be sure.

Doesn't seem fair to the folks trying to legitimately buy and sell stuff. Bait and switch for at least one of the parties. Crazy.

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By Erik W
From Bay Area, CA
Jan 5, 2011
North face of Ama Dablam - taken on approach to Kongma La.
Brian in SLC wrote:
Geez, my math is poor or did I see the eBay listing at 350, with 20 bucks for shipping? That's 268 v 370. That ain't a $38 buck profit.


Kept shipping out of it. But at $350 (opening & sold price), ebay+paypal fees amount to $44... so net revenue is $306..... $306 less COGS from Evan of $268 equals $38 profit.

She also had margin built into her shipping, but like I said I kept that out of it [EDIT TO ADD: kept it out because I don't know her shipping situation, there could be a real cost of $20 (Priority +insurance, +deliveryconfirmation, +packaging, etc), so better to leave it out. But that charge ($20) should not enter in a profit calculation unless one knows with reasonable certainty her shipping costs.]

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By climber1212
From US
Jan 5, 2011
ss

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Jan 5, 2011
My kinda simian
jeep1212 wrote:
...I am very sorry for those that have taken it personally (i.e., Ryan Kelly, Eric W., Mark Nelson), and...


Interesting stance, as Mark and I were the first two people to jump in and say that what you're doing is a common practice. Perhaps you should put "work on reading comprehension" on your list of 2011 resolutions, right after "go on a diet".

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By kachoong
From The Outback, Texas
Jan 5, 2011
Climbing at Frog Buttress
jeep1212 wrote:
We were just looking for a couple of nice parkas for some winter activities...if it would fit...if I didnít fit me...I was going to buy the parka, try it on, and if it didnít fit...If it fit...if it didnít fit me


So you lied then about trying it on to see if it would fit. You obviously knew it wouldn't.

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By Buff Johnson
Jan 5, 2011
smiley face
I believe Cin was selling some bitch-slap by the liter a while back. Don't know if it ever made it to ebay, but surely a mint to be made....here.

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