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Dear Robbers Roost Chain Chopper,
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Apr 23, 2012
Just curious who the d bag is who chopped all the fixed chains from all the lower halves of almost every route at Robbers Roost (specifically the Robbery Wall)? Curiously, you neglected to remove the chains from the extensions and higher pitches. Was this a mere oversight, or were you just too lazy to stick clip any higher to steal?

The Las Vegas climbing community would greatly appreciate it if you could return the stolen property to where you pilfered it from (ex. Re-hang said hardware). You may think you were doing some sort of ethical/safety service by removing them, but no. Yes, the aluminum biners need continual replacement by the community, and on the rarest occasion the snap-link, the chains do not and never have. By the way, if you think it was an eye sore and could hinder access, dont fret. The Forest Service couldnt care less about some fixed chains swinging from a cliff. If you dont believe me, ask them.

A lot of money was invested in that hardware a few years ago, so please be kind to return it or replace it. Last time I checked, stealing was not an acceptable practice. Anywhere. Thank you.
SethR
Joined Apr 18, 2007
281 points
Apr 23, 2012
Skiing around.
SethR wrote:
d bag

It's a shame you started out with this in your post. I would guess that no meaningful dialogue will happen with this as your initial statement.
Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 13, 2006
2,147 points
Apr 23, 2012
Skiing around.
David Sahalie wrote:
nope. people who steal chains and lowering biners are douche bags. plain and simple. big problem in new mexico too.

I'm not commenting on the type of person that would take chains from routes. I just think it is silly to start out with name calling and then ask for them back.
Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 13, 2006
2,147 points
Apr 23, 2012
Darren in Vegas wrote:
I'm not commenting on the type of person that would take chains from routes. I just think it is silly to start out with name calling and then ask for them back.


Pretty silly if you think that was ever the real intent of this post.
Air Alexy
Joined May 13, 2010
3 points
Apr 23, 2012
Skiing around.
SethR wrote:
d bag...please be kind to return it or replace it.

just taking this at face value.
Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 13, 2006
2,147 points
Apr 23, 2012
Darren in Vegas wrote:
just taking this at face value.

I don't actually expect the equipment to be returned, nor any meaningful dialogue, as that would be an admittance of error on the thief's part. Hence, the "d bag" terminology and for further reference, a concise definition of said thief, aka d bag:

"The term d bag/douchebag generally refers to a male with a certain combination of obnoxious characteristics related to attitude, social ineptitude, public behavior or outward presentation."

Seems pretty accurate.
SethR
Joined Apr 18, 2007
281 points
Apr 23, 2012
Skiing around.
SethR wrote:
I don't actually expect the equipment to be returned, nor any meaningful dialogue, as that would be an admittance of error on the thief's part. Hence, the "d bag" terminology and for further reference, a concise definition of said thief, aka d bag: "The term d bag/douchebag generally refers to a male with a certain combination of obnoxious characteristics related to attitude, social ineptitude, public behavior or outward presentation." Seems pretty accurate.

I would say that if you were interested in putting new chains back up, this type of rhetoric is only going to start the Great Chain Wars of 2012. Hopefully through internet name calling we can have our own version of the Bolt Wars of the 90's.
I personally like the convenience of the chains, but dislike the crowds they bring. It seems everytime I went there when they were up, it just invited hour long hang dog sessions on the warm ups.
I would say next time, epoxy the threads on the quicklinks and this will be less of a problem. If we can't outsmart the d-bags, who can we outsmart? By the way...is that a Merriam-Webster definition?
Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 13, 2006
2,147 points
Apr 23, 2012
Pente 5.11 Onsight
I'm glad to here that that someone around the Las Vegas metro area is beginning to correct the injustices of the past.

I cant understand for the life of me, the sense of entitlement required to not only grid bolt a wall but to then chip holds and perma-draw every thing in sight. Yes this area is on publicly owned land and yes the people engaging in this style of development are members of the public. But last time I checked you couldn't just walk onto publicly owned land with power tools and start chopping and drilling to your harts content, just to satisfy you desire to recreate. I think if there really is a strong base in the climbing community that supports this style of climbing, then these people should organize. Put together a proposal of a "sport climbing park". That way the area community can come to a consensus as to whether the environmental and visual impacts of an outdoor climbing gym are in the best interests of the user groups of a given area.

I don't feel than a member of the climbing community has the right to unilaterally make a decision that affects not only climbers but everyone who uses the area.

So in my mind, until there is a consensus based decision involving the BLM and every user grope involved, no one is steeling anything. They are just some climbers nice enough to take time out of their day to clean up the trash of the selfish few.
BigMoveMike
From prescott
Joined Oct 13, 2009
78 points
Apr 23, 2012
Skiing around.
Mike J. wrote:
. I don't feel than a member of the climbing community has the right to unilaterally make a decision that affects not only climbers but everyone who uses the area.

I think it is odd that you would say this since the person who took the draws did this exact thing.
Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 13, 2006
2,147 points
Apr 23, 2012
@Mike J

Not sure what your slant is here. The Robbery Wall is, by no means, grid bolted in any way. In fact, most of the extensions there have rather airy sections between bolts and are undoubtedly, strongly independent lines. Have you even climbed on any of the routes there, or iust hiked up to the base and looked away in imagined disgust? Because if you did climb on a majority of them you would definitely not use the term "grid bolt". And yes, there IS a very strong base of the climbing community that supports these permanent draws at crags. These are the people climbing there every weekend. Sport climbing park? Really? This isn't Crawdad Canyon, nor does it resemble anything like it. FYI, this wasnt a unilateral decision when the chains were placed several years ago. Many people chipped in financially to contribute to the purchasing of hardware, while only a couple actually did the labor of hanging all of them.

@Darren in Vegas
Nah, no chain wars this time around. It really isn't worth it. Unfortunately, the climbing community has no recourse when some anonymous person insists on living in the past, and is convinced he is doing the right thing by stealing shit and annoying everyone else. And no, not Merriam-Webster. Although, I am interested in their definition if they have one.
SethR
Joined Apr 18, 2007
281 points
Apr 24, 2012
Sometimes I truly enjoy being a jerk and violating Guideline #1, especially after a few gin & tonics at the end of a hot day in the desert. Most of the drivel on this forum isn't worth weighing in on, but every once in awhile, I can't resist.

One of the truly great things about the climbing community (whatever that means) in Vegas is that there is something for everybody. Whatever your little niche is, whatever discipline of climbing that fuels your hedonistic pleasure zones, it can be found here in Vegas. Do your thing. Go about your business. Shut your fucking pie-hole and have a good time. Who Cares?

But every so often, the Killis Dillers of the Vegas climbing world want to pretend they are the voice of the climbing community, tell us all how it is, or how it should be. And now we've got Mike J, fresh from the Red Rock Campground stepping up. Blah, blah, blah.

What's the matter Mike? Your 14 days at the campground almost up?

First of all, you may want to learn how to use the spell check function on a computer. Beyond that, you really should do a little research before you start popping off about "injustices of the past" or the "trash of the selfish few." You don't have a clue.

Last time I checked, you can "walk onto publicly owned land with a power tools and start chopping and drilling to your harts (sic) content...." It's been going on here for decades. Not years, decades! We have many "sport climbing parks," both limestone and sandstone. You ever been to the Black Corridor on a weekend in April? What the fuck would you call that?

The fact that you think there is even the slightest possibility of "a consensus based decision involving the BLM and every other user grope" (you may have coined a classic new phrase) indicates that you live in a bizarro dream world, or more likely, a world where you have issues with climbers who don't play by your rules. Get over it. Maybe you should join a different user grope.

Robbers Roost is Forest Service, not BLM. And Gin & Tonics are best enjoyed with copious amounts fresh squeezed lime.
Mark Limage
Joined Apr 1, 2010
32 points
Apr 24, 2012
Skiing around.
Mark-
you made my morning. hope the G&Ts were tasty.
Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 13, 2006
2,147 points
Apr 24, 2012
new toy
Darren in Vegas wrote:
Mark- you made my morning. hope the G&Ts were tasty.



+1
Doug Foust
From Henderson, Nevada
Joined Sep 14, 2008
191 points
Apr 25, 2012
The Dread Pirate Killis wrote:
Seth, this is no news to anyone, but some of those chains weren't appreciated by the people who bolted the routes in the first place...

We all figured it would not be long before you reared your ugly head and piped in regarding this issue, as you have so eloquently in the past. In my mad, name calling fit of rage of an initial post, I actually considered you could be a candidate for the blatant d baggery. Alas, though, surely even you are getting too old for these sorts of shenanigans, no? So I figured it'd be better to cast the net elsewhere and see what rubbish collects.

On a serious note though. You refer to the FA individuals being distraught regarding chains being hung on "their" routes. I wonder why this is the case. Do these individuals have dominion over these routes In perpetuum? Do these same individuals get angry when their bad bolts, bad anchors, loose holds or choss they left sitting on a ledge gets dealt with? I think not. While I appreciate the hard work and labor that is involved in putting up routes (of which, I have done in my younger/dumber years), these individuals are certainly not oblivious to the fact that someone else would've done the exact same a week, month, or year later had they not. We are not talking a piece of art here (while some of the handiwork creating these routes may be considered artwork by some, but I digress). I should add that some of the chains were removed from routes that were established by the individuals who installed the chains. What, pray tell, is the logic behind that? Do tell.

The sport has evolved, as should you and all the other crusty old timers that cling to their EB's and socks, figure 8's, carpet instead of crash pads, Grateful Dead instead of house music, and whining about all the damn kids at Kraft these days. Because honestly, very few give a shit about the old days and old ways buddy. And with that, I shall exit stage left from this topic and return to 8a.nu for more refreshing, civilized, intellectual banter. Xoxo
SethR
Joined Apr 18, 2007
281 points
Apr 25, 2012
Mashers Tower
lol internet sure makes it easy to make an ass of yourself Cornelius Jefferson
Joined Apr 5, 2006
163 points
Apr 25, 2012
slopey
CJC wrote:
lol internet sure makes it easy to make an ass of yourself


+2
Jeremy Hand
Joined Feb 24, 2012
109 points
Apr 27, 2012
Ahh the famed "vegas climbing community" is still at it. Nice to see all is still the same. jed botsford
Joined Jul 10, 2006
8 points
Apr 27, 2012
jed botsford wrote:
Ahh the famed "vegas climbing community" is still at it. Nice to see all is still the same.


and here you thought you were missing progress!
John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 1, 2004
2,394 points
Apr 27, 2012
I believe the chain robber is actually Tony Horton, taking your silly crutches away to force you to hold on tighter and longer to make the clip. Try it for 90 days! Tradoholic
Joined Apr 17, 2004
12,472 points
Apr 28, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
SethR wrote:
The Las Vegas climbing community would greatly appreciate it if you could return the stolen property to where you pilfered it from

SethR wrote:
I don't actually expect the equipment to be returned, nor any meaningful dialogue


So you just wanted to cry about it on the Internet? Congratulations. Mission accomplished. Moving on..

SethR wrote:
The sport has evolved, as should you and all the other crusty old timers that cling to their...Grateful Dead instead of house music...


Now you've crossed the line. People have been listening to the Dead long before house music was even created. And they will be listening to the Dead long after people realize that house music is garbage. :)
Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Joined May 10, 2007
280 points
Apr 28, 2012
Shucka Bra.
I'll just cling to my guns and religion thank you Dustin B
From Steamboat
Joined Jan 29, 2006
1,516 points
Apr 28, 2012
Third pillar of dana descent.
Bahahaha! This thread is comical.

We got passive-agressive Mark tuning in on MP every few weeks, overzealous Killis with no filter (love ya buddy), and butt condom Seth complaining about nothing else than perma-draws.

It must be so painful to have to carry an extra 2 lbs of sport draws to clip those bolts (I can feel the pump from here). There is an abundance of virgin rock in Charleston, significantly underdeveloped area. Go do your thing and put up your own sport climbing mecca w/ all the permas you want with no one to bother you. You can chip, glue, grind, power drill, shave your pubes, and no one will ever know!!!!!!!

I can assure you that Killis has not touched your beloved punanny draws as I have personally accompanied Killis in replacing over 100+ bolts worth of ASCA hardwear in 2011/12 in RR.

Seth, i'm sorry your perma-draws got chopped, would you like a tissue? :)


Want a tissue?
Want a tissue?
Rob Fielding
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined May 8, 2011
259 points
Apr 30, 2012
Rob Fielding wrote:
Seth, i'm sorry your perma-draws got chopped, would you like a tissue? :)


Nah, no tissue, they weren't my perma draws. Thanks though. Just glad to see all you crusty ol' tradsters still get fired up and passionate about nonsense. Good job slamming all that new steel into Redd Roxx, you guys are the true heroes...
SethR
Joined Apr 18, 2007
281 points
Apr 30, 2012
Skiing around.
Rob Fielding wrote:
I can assure you that Killis has not touched your beloved punanny draws as I have personally accompanied Killis in replacing over 100+ bolts worth of ASCA hardwear in 2011/12 in RR.

Not sure how one proves the other.
Darren in Vegas
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 13, 2006
2,147 points
Apr 30, 2012
Third pillar of dana descent.
Darren... You're right. We'll never know whether he's climbin or grindin.

Grindin
Grindin


Seth, i'm just stirring up the melting pot. Mark had some good points, there is plenty of climbing for every type of style. That's unfortunate about the perma-draws...
Rob Fielding
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined May 8, 2011
259 points
Jun 4, 2012
me
We're all douche bags at some point, right? So, seems appropriate. (Does it violate rule #1 if I include myself?)

You guys just started another slap fight in this thread! Take it out to the playground you babies.
slk
From Reno, NV
Joined Jan 26, 2011
167 points


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