Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Critique my belay setup
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By Les Malan
Dec 8, 2011


Hey guys! New climber here. I've been climbing in the gym for a few months but got out a few weeks ago to Quartz Mountain in Oklahoma. If you know the area, the approaches are a bit gnarly and some of the belay stances off the ground can feel a bit scary. I was belaying my other friend who is also really new up Monkey On A Football, which is a really heady, probably kinda sandbagged 5.6. ANyways, I wanted to anchor myself in case he came off (he's really new at climbing and I don't trust his safety) because there was a decent drop off behind me. I used a hex behind a flake to my daisy. I'm also getting used to my new Cinch, which is kinda like a Grigri, but not as good. Is there anything else I can do better? See my picture.

Thanks!

FLAG
By TheIceManCometh
From Albany, NY
Dec 8, 2011
Chiller Pillar, Adirondacks
Great that you're thinking about how to protect yourself in different belay situations. From your description it sounds like you're on pitch #1, but it starts off the ground -- hence the tie in.

A few thoughts:

1. For the hex behind the flake, was it set for an upwards pull? After the leader places the first piece, the pull will be upwards, ie. dragging you up. So you might need to place two pieces. One to hold a downward pull and one to hold an upward pull.

2. That seems like more slack in the line than I'd want to give a leader. Keeping them tighter reduces the chance of the leader hitting a ledge, especially on less steep climbs.

3. Even though it's an auto locking belay device, I'd make it a habit to always keep your brake hand on the rope.

4. Is that a daisy chain or a PAS? Daisy Chains aren't as strong as a PAS, so aren't recommended for tie-ing into a belay. If you're doing a lot of trad, just learn to tie in with the rope.

Enjoy the climb!

p.s. and of course, in a multi-pitch belay, don't just rely on a single point of protection. Generally 3 good pieces plus one for the upward pull.

p.p.s. are you using one of those new BD Gridlock carabiners for your belay device. Check out the instructions for that carabiner here. You'll notice in the middle of the third row of pictures that the small end should hold your GriGri, Cinch, etc.

FLAG
By CO_Michael
Dec 8, 2011
Mexico roadside rocks
Troll
Troll

FLAG
By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Dec 8, 2011
I agree with all the comments Choo Choo said, but I want to add...nice T-shirt!

FLAG
By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Dec 8, 2011
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
- if you're the belay stance is scary, as you said, and are worried about the leader falling before getting in pro (or, pulling the pro) and taking you down with him, you should have built a full blown anchor. and, as mentioned, make sure it can handle pulls in multiple directions.

- what ChooChoo said about a daisy chain. those loops aren't rated for very much force. use a PAS or tie into the anchor with the rope. plus, if you use a PAS, make sure that you are not allowing slack to form. even PASs aren't well suited to being shock loaded.

- lastly, is that your brake hand that isn't holding the rope. i'm not familiar enough with a Cinch to be sure but it looks like it. don't take your brake hand off the rope. and, especially not for a picture you're going to post to get feedback on your belay set up.

- and, on that note, don't pose for a picture while the leader is climbing.

FLAG
By Les Malan
Dec 8, 2011
ChooChoo wrote:
1. For the hex behind the flake, was it set for an upwards pull? After the leader places the first piece, the pull will be upwards, ie. dragging you up.


I'm more worried about going down. Why does it matter if I go up? Isn't that a soft catch?


ChooChoo wrote:
That seems like more slack in the line than I'd want to give a leader


Again, soft catch. Is this wrong? I don't think he would've hit the ground, and it was slab anyway.

ChooChoo wrote:
don't just rely on a single point of protection


I was going to back it up with a tricam, but I couldn't get it in right. What if my second piece isn't in range of my daisy?

FLAG
By TheIceManCometh
From Albany, NY
Dec 8, 2011
Chiller Pillar, Adirondacks
Yes, if the leader's pro is shaky & you want to give a dynamic belay, then yes a soft catch is an option. But say you get dragged up, the hex pulls and then the leader's pro pulls out too. You'll go to the bottom too.

Assuming the leader's pro is solid, I'd avoid giving a soft catch on a slab. The more the leader falls, the more likely to get scraped up.

If that really is a daisy chain and not a PAS, don't use it in your belay setup. It's not strong enough. If the 2nd piece is too far away for your PAS, then use your rope to build the belay or learn to use the cordelette, etc.

For new leaders, I'd recommend learning to tie-in with the rope first since you always have that. Then add in the cordelette, equalette, etc.

FLAG
By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Dec 8, 2011
Les Malan wrote:
Again, soft catch. Is this wrong? I don't think he would've hit the ground, and it was slab anyway.


More slack for the leader does not equal softer catch. More slack means longer leader fall.

FLAG
 
By Mitch Musci
From Fort Collins, CO
Dec 8, 2011
Another classic!

FLAG
By bag
Dec 8, 2011
You are brazenly eschewing eye protection. And I suspect that you are barefoot based on the shoes clipped onto your harness. This exposes you to injury by rockfall or rodent bite (hanta virus)

FLAG
By MegaGaper2000
From Indianola, Wa
Dec 8, 2011
the dragon's tail, or dragon's tooth, or whatever....
FYI, in MP forum speak "critique my belay set-up" = "hey old withered climbing trolls who spend more time reading 'advanced climbing technique' on the shitter than they do pulling down, I'd like to masturbate you!"

Nothing personal, just thought you'd like to know. I did it once myself, too, when I first got on here. Asked folks to criticize my rappel backup. Woooboy.... I WAS a little stubborner than you, though...

As to your belay set up>>>
-It's true that first piece should be multi-directional, for a number of reasons. Mostly because a hard hit could pop it, and then knock you off the ledge. You could then lose control of the belay, (autoblock devices too) or, if the leader had only placed his second piece and it popped, you could fall and die. Weeeeeee!
- Doesn't look like you have a hand on the belay device. Why?
- No helmet?
- Lotsa slack


I see above you argued about some of these points. Whatever. There is no right or wrong, just a line that seperates the risks you will take from the risks you won't.

Just remember, you're taking risks for your leader, too. If he's fine with you clipping a single shitty passive piece to your daisy and belaying no-hands with nothing to protect your noggin (and his belay) but a shit-eating grin and a sweet t-shirt, then it's whatevs.

But if you ever climb with me I hope you tell me in advance about your style so I can dump you while we're still on flat ground.

Also "I don't think he would've hit the ground, and it was slab anyway." = worst rationalization EVER.

FLAG
By E.Ward
Dec 8, 2011
I was in a similar situation a few weeks ago, Im pretty new to using trad pro too, but except for not having a helmet and not having a hand on the brake, it seems like this setup is pretty bomber. Its pretty much what I would setup I think. As long as the hex is equalized inside the flake it should be good right? its on a locker so its not like its gonna come off the rope,

FLAG
By M Irving
Dec 9, 2011
Dude! If this is a troll, HAHA, if not, PLEASE get some decent instruction from somewhere or somebody before something really bad happens.

FLAG
By NickinCO
From colorado
Dec 9, 2011
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.
Definitely a troll... come on! LOL

FLAG
By the Oracle
From Delphi
Dec 9, 2011
mawiage
Looks perfect to me!



And watch out for those heady 5.6s, they sure are tough!

FLAG
By Dom
Administrator
From New Brunswick Canada
Dec 9, 2011
Moby dick 5.11-
-Hand on the brake hand please
-For the love of god, take in the slack, ESPECIALLY if your friend is on a slab.

-A dynamic sling would be better than your daisy but as it is in your picture, your daisy is fully stretched out and fine if it stays that way. Don't give it ANY slack though.

-As for the hex, just place a cam. I'm sure you can find a nice parallel crack for it where it'll be multi-directional.

I've done mistakes when I started too.

p.s. I hope you are sincere and not a troll.

FLAG
 
By steven charles
Dec 9, 2011
oh man. i know les, and he's definitely not a troll. he does this kind of thing at the crag all the time. Les, we've talked multiple times one-on-one, but maybe a public forum is the ridicule you need, if you eve realize you're being ridiculed. you know what a troll is? someone who pretends to be dumb or controversial so others will bite. You're dumb enough people think you're fake.

ps, lock your biners and stop climbing in oklahoma. idiots like you are gonna give the rest of us a bad name.

FLAG
By T.Dailey
From Avon
Dec 9, 2011
Morning #1 of 25
I'm really surprised it hasn't been said already but, basically...
Yur gunna die!!"

FLAG
By Yarp
Dec 9, 2011
Les Malan wrote:
Is there anything else I can do better? See my picture.


You could start by reading a book and figuring out a few basics.

That's not a belay you have there. It's a completely worthless clusterfuck and an utter waste of time.

Find some skills gumby, before you kill someone else with your fool's confidence.

FLAG
By Steve86
Dec 9, 2011
I hope I'm not being trolled.

This is exactly what daisies were designed NOT to do. That pocket is rated for a few hundred pounds, essentially body weight only. In theory you could zipper the pockets till the end of the daisy where it would eventually be full strength.

A much better solution would be to use the rope. First of all, tie into the rope on your end, close the system, before your partner ever leaves the ground. Next, use your end of the rope to clove to the "anchor" master point which in this case is a single hex. If you insist on using a daisy/runner/whatever as a quick point of attachment, at least use something that is full strength like a PAS. Often if I'm climbing to a bolted anchor I will use a double length sling the same way you are using your daisy to initially anchor to a bolt while I build the anchor and then I'll switch over to being tied in via the rope.

There are a lot of advantages to using the rope but I'll focus on two. The first is that it's a dynamic point of attachment. If it's not immediately obvious why this is a dramatic advantage I suggest you read some more books or seek some in person training. Secondly, with a clove hitch, it's easily adjustable across a much longer range than a daisy/sling or PAS. This is super useful in certain circumstances.

I'm not even going to get into using a single hex, the fact that there is a ton of slack in the rope, the fact that you are holding the wrong side of the rope, the fact that you are taking a picture of your setup while your partner is climbing (who knows if they are climbing during the picture). Wow I feel trolled.

I realize some of this might sound like overkill but you should treat bad/dangerous belay stances on P1 like they are multipitch belays. You are likely facing similar injury. Furthermore, it's a good idea to not build bad habits because while you aren't super likely to be injured in this exact scenario, if you used this same setup or elements from it in a multipitch belay you could kill yourself or your partner.

Even if I was trolled I hope that someone else reading this might have actually learned something or at least thought through what they were doing.

FLAG
By Peter Stokes
From Them Thar Hills
Dec 9, 2011
Wall Street, Moab, UT
Andrew Haag wrote:
Make sure that the end of your daisy chain is clipped in as well as whatever loop you choose to shorten the length.


Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed in the photo

FLAG
By germsauce
Dec 9, 2011
Hippos kill people
individual loops on a daisy are not rated for much more than..... oh F**k it............












YER GONNA DIE!

FLAG
By Sir Wanksalot
From County Jail
Dec 9, 2011
You should have asked is there anything I am doing CORRECTLY?!? You and your friend are likely to get F.U.K.T.U.P unless you get a book, practice building anchors, and possibly hire a guide.

Or you are trolling, and if that's the case, hat's off... good troll... probably reach 8 pages on this site!

If I were you I'd kick my own ass!

FLAG
By kevin deweese
From Oakland, Ca
Dec 9, 2011
Birds and Beards
troll
troll


It's a set up!

FLAG
 
By Steve86
Dec 9, 2011


err

I mean:


FLAG
By Wade J.
From Boulder, CO
Dec 9, 2011
winter aid climbing
troll food:
amazon.com/Mountaineering-Free...

This book will be the best $20 you ever spent. Except for that drunken night in China Town...

FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>