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Crag Babies

Original Post
steveherschleb · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

Hello Fellow Climbers,

I'm hoping to avoid opening up a big controversy with this thread (like the crag dog vs. anti crag dog arguments), but I think it's important so I'm doing it anyways. I'd like to discuss something that came up on my latest climbing day this past weekend: crag babies.

It was a lovely Saturday in Boulder, CO and a few friends and I headed Boulder Canyon for some climbing. We went to a popular, sunny crag (Animal World) and for sure we expected some company up there. What we didn't expect was like 4 or 5 crag babies ranging from practically new borns to toddlers.

I'm generally fine with people doing whatever they want, but this was a bit extreme. Here's why the crag babies were an issue:

1) It was very disturbing. Multiple times throughout the day the babies were screaming and crying, often most of them at once. Not only does that of course distract from the "quiet outdoors" that many people are looking for on an afternoon at the crag, but it's dangerous. With so many babies crying and the parents fusing over their kids, literally 10 feet behind where you're belaying and climbing, it's very distracting. Climbing is a sport that can go from very safe to very dangerous quite quickly if you're not focusing on doing the right things in the right order. With all that added distraction it's just increasing the chances that somebody will miss something and bad stuff happening.

2) Those babies could have been easily killed. Sometimes rocks come off the wall when climbing, it just happens. While a small rock falling 50 feet could seriously injury your belayer or friend on the ground, normally we have a pretty good chance at staying safe by wearing helmets, paying attention, ducking/hiding when a climber yells, "ROCK!", etc. Babies of course will do none of this. If a rock would have hit one of those babies, it likely would have sustained extremely serious injuries or worse, devastating for all parties involved.

3) Crags have cliffs. The crag we were at has a pretty spacious area under the wall, but it's not that big and it still has edges with 40+ foot drops. These babies were on the ground less than 10 feet from the edge, and while they seemed to be watched by their parents, they weren't harnessed in or anything like that. Darwin be damned, but I just don't think having your baby crawling around next to a cliff is a great idea. This is of course dangerous for the child, but also the other climbers at the crag since we're now all implicitly (and against our will) charged with keeping an eye on the kids (to the detriment of watching our friends climb). I came to the crag to climb and have an awesome day with my friends, not to make sure some strangers kid doesn't crawl itself off a cliff.

4) The parents hardly even climbed. This is less of a safety thing and more of a "what's the point?!?". The parents spent most of the day fussing over the kids and only got 1 or 2 climbs in the entire day. Why would you go through all this trouble, put your children at serious risk, majorly distract everyone else at the crag, and then not even get a good day's worth of climbing in?

While I understand and respect other climber desire to continue climbing when they start expanding their family, bringing your babies to the crag is a seriously bad idea. It's disrespectful to your fellow climbers, it increases the chances of an accident, and it's potentially a very dangerous place for small children.

There's nothing more awesome than seeing a 7 year old crushing a tough route. But please wait to bring your kids to the crag until they are old enough to climb, or at least old enough to keep themselves safe.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I don't have kids and my wife and I don't plan to. That may shape my opinions and my lack of ability to deal with screaming children, but my personal choices don't detract from points 1, 2 & 3 above.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
steveherschleb wrote:Hello Fellow Climbers, I'm hoping to avoid opening up a big controversy with this thread
But you know it will.

For the record, I'm in agreement with you.
Brendan Magee · · Parker, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0
steveherschleb wrote:FULL DISCLOSURE: I don't have kids and my wife and I don't plan to.
Did you get a snip snip already? Don't say never.

But yes, I agree with you. Go hiking with your baby in one of those backpack carriers. Much easier than climbing with a baby. There's a site for that now (www.hikingproject.com).
Leify Guy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 367

I have a crag baby, I'm mostly just commenting so that I can follow this thread and see what everyone says.

jleining · · CO · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 32
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Ryan M Moore · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 35

I think the same rules go for dogs and babies. If you can't keep it quiet, can't keep it from going where it shouldn't and if it isn't cute... Don't bring it.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
jleining wrote: I'm generally fine with people doing whatever they want, but... You mean only when they get the fuck out of your way... 1) Its a public space... Mind your own business 2) Could have just as easily been killed in a car crash or SIDS... 3) I bet these parents know their kids better than you and had a good eye on them 4) Since when are you required to climb... Next time tell people where you are going to climb so they can yield before you...GFY
Asinine and unnecessarily hostile response.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

i could could care less about the crag babies. I can tune them out just like Mom and Dad do. It's the condesending parents I hate. So you're a breeder.. You wanna cookie? I do enjoy people who express the stink face when kids are running around the crag with no parent in site

The gym is even better!! The young people who don't know how to interact with adults definitely don't know what to say to kids.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
FrankPS wrote: Asinine and unnecessarily hostile response.
Haha.. That's the type of parent I'm talking about!
vincent L. · · Redwood City · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 560

Has anyone ever seen the crag trifecta? The baby, the dog, and the loud music ...

It happens ...

Cory Barnes · · Boulder, CO · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 10

I have 4 kids. I agree with steveherschleb. Babies don't belong at the crag. If you want to risk getting your baby's head dented in by a falling rock (or iPhone), that's up to you as a parent to determine the risk and accept the consequences. However, despite the best intentions and efforts of parents, babies are noisy and distracting. Leave 'em with the sitter and you'll actually be able to get some routes in.

R. Moran · · Moab , UT · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 140

Sport climbing is for Cry babies. See this thread.

Jan Roestel · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2008 · Points: 52

I have taken my "crag baby" out to a few places and I generally agree with all of "your concerns." As a parent, something falling, another climber, or their dog crazy dog are all potentially dangers for my not even crawling baby. So when taking our gremlin out, we head to areas that have good bases for hanging out. We climb in a rotating group of three, a climber, a belayer, and a baby sitter who holds said baby which typically works out to be no different than if out cragging with a regular threesome. We are pretty good at snacking, getting a drink, shifting layers, changing diapers, sorting gear, while holding the kid on an arm to still get in a bunch of routes.

It sounds like you came upon some sort of organized "mommy/daddy and me" event which I would agree to be "a bit too much" in a less than ideal environment for such an event.

Nathan Self · · Louisiana · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 90

I took my son to HP40 when he was 4. Because of weather, it was a disaster. But we didn't really bother anyone else. (Actually, seeing a little kid trying to crush in the freezing rain probably motivated some folks..)

When he turned 5 last year, he joined me for a summer road trip, and we stopped at many bouldering spots. Since I was driving for a month, I picked kind of obscure and remote spots, but we both climbed a lot and rarely saw anyone else.

I've planned bouldering trips for him, but he's not ready or interested in getting on a rope yet, so he doesn't come on tall trips.

He's nearly 6 now and could definitely keep himself safe at any reasonable crag--while minding his own business.

Justin Brunson · · Tacoma WA · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 2,266

You went to Animal World on a Saturday expecting peace and quiet?

Eli Buzzell · · noco · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 5,507
Ryan M Moore wrote:I think the same rules go for dogs and babies. If you can't keep it quiet, can't keep it from going where it shouldn't and if it isn't cute... Don't bring it.
/thread
Daniel Simanca · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 0

I'd say the safety aspects can be managed by selecting the right crag, to where the risks you mention are mostly avoided. Parents can take turns climbing with others in the party, a safe distance away from rockfall and cliffs. But you take risks with your kids when you put them in a car, when you teach them to ride a bike, etc., and everyone's tolerance is different. I'm sure that, being a climber, this is something you can identify with and would want to be careful about judging.

On the crying babies, well, the discussion is mostly the same as with any other areas: you'd likely be annoyed by a baby crying on a plane, a beach, a restaurant... The details are bound to be highly subjective, but I would say that in general the crag "etiquette" will not trump the need to be civilized about it dealing with other folks.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Bill Kirby wrote: It's the condesending parents I hate. So you're a breeder.. You wanna cookie? I do enjoy people who express the stink face when kids are running around the crag with no parent in site The gym is even better!! The young people who don't know how to interact with adults definitely don't know what to say to kids.
what makes them so condescending?
Ben Scott · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Sep 2007 · Points: 3,932

my crag-son has some comments he would like to share on this topic:

nuff said

TKeagle · · Eagle, CO · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 79

Well... It is.. sorry I thought the thread was called crag " babes " - my bad - carry on, oh rich republic, carry on !

Barking dogs more annoying than some frazzled parents trying to get back to normal on a Saturday afternoon. Take it easy dude.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

Babies, Hippies, and Dogs unite!!!! You must make yourselves known, or the blather about peace and quiet at a popular sport area will continue.

Personally, that's why I want music, so I can ignore the rest of you, but of course, you want me to hear how rad your ridiculous is, so I get it.

Anyway, the community census reigns again, now everyone shut the heck up and listen to someones espouse a really important opinion on how things should be!

This of course has nothing to do with what happens when the rats flee their homeland and begin overcrowding mine.

That means you Wisconsinite who claims local local status!!

LOL!!

Carry on.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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