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Courtesy at the Crag. An (open source) Climbing Etiquette Manifesto

Original Post
willeslinger · · Golden, Colorado · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 25

You're at the crag and you're excited. You've loaded the rope, rack, harnesses, shoes and food into your pack, lock the truck and you're on the approach. The sun is shining, the wind has a nice bite, and you're spirit is soaring because today, you're outside, today, you're going to climb.

You come across another group of climbers, you're excited, you're happy, and you want to talk with these others who are choosing to live their day in the same manner as yourself.

"Howdy! What are ya'll climbing today?"

Silence, they ignore you, they clip draws onto their harnesses and thread a rope through their GriGri.

You walk on.

I think that these people are missing the point.

Mark Jenkins wrote in "McKinley Redux":

"I was mulling over our unexpected discordance when, halfway through the corridor of crevasses on Windy Corner, I realized I didn't have a clue why Mark Twight climbs. For 25 years I had believed that climbers climbed for the same reason that painters painted or writers wrote or composers composed: because they loved it."

Alex Lowe said that "The best climber in the world is the one who's having the most fun".

Where did this attitude go? When did it become acceptable to egotrip through your climbing, and ignore others who share your passions? Maybe it's always been this way, it probably has.

But why can't we change this? Mountain Project has the best, most friendly and active climbers on the net.

I say that we change the status quo. Let's get together here on this thread and lay down some informal rules to live the climbing life by. A set of etiquettes that encourage inclusiveness, safety and fun on the rock.

There are too many of us awesome, friendly climbers who live the lifestyle for the purity of existence it gives us. Let's make our attitude contagious and overpowering together.

Jeffrey Arthur · · Westminster, CO · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 290
willeslinger wrote:"Howdy! What are ya'll climbing today?"
Minus the "What are ya'll climbing today?" this is actually how I great everyone I meet at the crag. If someone can actually ignore a good ole, "Howdy!" then the hell with em. Unless you're at Rifle and not warming up on The Beast then pretty much everyone ignores you. That's just the nature of that area so I'm less likely to get offended.

Disclaimer: Rifle egos in my experience are actually rare, but they do exist and when they do they tend to ruin alot of peoples experience there even if it's only happened once.
Sam Feuerborn · · Carbondale · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 810

I like the platinum rule a bit more.
'Treat others how they would like to be treated.'

Sam Feuerborn · · Carbondale · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 810

Then spank em, especially if they're one of the fabled hot climber ladies. hahaha

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
willeslinger wrote:Silence, they ignore you, they clip draws onto their harnesses and thread a rope through their GriGri.
A there's your answer..they were sport climbers.

Sorry had to go there.
Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,241
Sam Feuerborn wrote:Then spank em, especially if they're one of the fabled hot climber ladies. hahaha
This ^^^ is generally a good idea.

While I agree with the positive bent of the OP, I don't see the need to lay down rules of etiquette for climbers besides the guidelines we already abide by. There are a few outstanding examples of rudeness I've run into, but, generally, most of the "horrible" interactions you hear about are just passive aggressive rants distorting the truth and debated after the fact here on the interwebs. The few crab apples who want to get hung up and cry about groups/dogs/rude leaders/or whatnot here are going to do that regardless; most of the people I run into out there are only too happy to talk about climbing, and sharing beta and good stories.
AWinters · · NH · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 5,120

man I get the shun all the time- depending on the day and the looks on their faces, I sometimes follow up with a laugh and an "Ok then!", or a "Shitty day huh?". I'm not looking for a conversation but to completely ignore someone is just plain rude.

In my personal experiences I find about 50% of the climbers I greet give me a friendly response. What is that? Maybe it's just me. I'm sorry I've ruined your day by being out here, just like you are. Why don't you try the backcountry?

Smile!

Crag Dweller · · New York, NY · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

I'm generally pretty social when out climbing. I say hi to and chat with other climbers. And, I like it when I run into other climbers with similar outgoing personalities. But, I realize there could be any host of reasons why another climber may not be all that social or talkative. And, those reasons may have nothing to do with me.

Maybe he's trying really hard to focus and get psyched for the redpoint attempt on his project. Maybe she's in a bad mood because her significant other gave her a hard time about heading out to climb again this weekend. Maybe he's dealing with some other stress and, other than his climbing partner, would prefer as much solitude as he can get at a crag. That's cool. They have just as much right to keep to themselves and be less social as I do to wander around chatting everyone up.

But, if you're in a bad mood, don't walk up and sit down right next to others while completely ignorming them. I had that happen recently while bouldering and it was just weird. A girl walks up to a group of us. We're all talkign and laughing. We say hi. She said absolutely nothing, didn't even so much as smile and then sat down a foot away from me at most. And, sat there silently with a melancholy look on her face. Talk about a buzz kill.

If you're in a bad mood or not feeling social, that's cool. But, don't force others to deal with your negative energy by inserting yourself into the group.

Monomaniac · · Morrison, CO · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 17,295
willeslinger wrote:Mark Jenkins wrote in "McKinley Redux": "I was mulling over our unexpected discordance when, halfway through the corridor of crevasses on Windy Corner, I realized I didn't have a clue why Mark Twight climbs. For 25 years I had believed that climbers climbed for the same reason that painters painted or writers wrote or composers composed: because they loved it."
It says right here that Mark Twight climbs because he loves it.

Maybe the problem is our definition of "climbing" is too broad.
no1nprtclr · · Front range Colorado · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 55

"'A girl walks up to a group of us. We're all talkign and laughing. We say hi. She said absolutely nothing, didn't even so much as smile and then sat down a foot away from me at most. And, sat there silently with a melancholy look on her face. Talk about a buzz kill.'"

"'talk about a buzz kill.'"

Only a buzz kill if you allow them to kill your buzz. You control yourself, how you think, act, react, etc...

This is the time to just ignore said individual and continue on with what was going on to begin with. If you ignore them long enough your positive energy may seep into them and bring them about, realizing the day isn't so bad after all. Or may drive them away, in which case, previous positive activity continues.

Sometimes when I'm having or had a bad day; getting out is just the thing for me. Makes me realize "life", and all the wonderful things that we have to live for. Makes me appreciate all the other aspects of what life is about and their importance and how to keep balance.

So, the cast is coming off my ankle Monday, woop woop!!! I'll finally get a softboot and perhaps start rehab.

Boy do I have a lot of appreciating to do when I get back out and feel that cold wind on my face, the arduous task of post holing, the wind blowing your rappel ropes, etc, but this time with a bigger smile on my face than ever before.... :)

Juan

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
Crag Dweller wrote: I had that happen recently while bouldering and it was just weird. A girl walks up to a group of us. We're all talkign and laughing. We say hi. She said absolutely nothing, didn't even so much as smile and then sat down a foot away from me at most. And, sat there silently with a melancholy look on her face. Talk about a buzz kill.
Invoke mens' greatest weapon, group flatulence.
Crag Dweller · · New York, NY · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
no1nprtclr wrote:"'A girl walks up to a group of us. We're all talkign and laughing. We say hi. She said absolutely nothing, didn't even so much as smile and then sat down a foot away from me at most. And, sat there silently with a melancholy look on her face. Talk about a buzz kill.'" "'talk about a buzz kill.'" Only a buzz kill if you allow them to kill your buzz. You control yourself, how you think, act, react, etc... This is the time to just ignore said individual and continue on with what was going on to begin with. If you ignore them long enough your positive energy may seep into them and bring them about, realizing the day isn't so bad after all. Or may drive them away, in which case, previous positive activity continues. Sometimes when I'm having or had a bad day; getting out is just the thing for me. Makes me realize "life", and all the wonderful things that we have to live for. Makes me appreciate all the other aspects of what life is about and their importance and how to keep balance. So, the cast is coming off my ankle Monday, woop woop!!! I'll finally get a softboot and perhaps start rehab. Boy do I have a lot of appreciating to do when I get back out and feel that cold wind on my face, the arduous task of post holing, the wind blowing your rappel ropes, etc, but this time with a bigger smile on my face than ever before.... :) Juan
Thanks, Deepak!
TresSki Roach · · Santa Fe, NM · Joined May 2002 · Points: 605

To: Everyone I have ever ignored at the crag

tomtom · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 0
willeslinger wrote:You're at the crag and you're excited. You've loaded the rope, rack, harnesses, shoes and food into your pack, lock the truck and you're on the approach. The sun is shining, the wind has a nice bite, and you're spirit is soaring because today, you're outside, today, you're going to climb. You come across another group of climbers, you're excited, you're happy, and you want to talk with these others who are choosing to live their day in the same manner as yourself. "Howdy! What are ya'll climbing today?" Silence, they ignore you, they clip draws onto their harnesses and thread a rope through their GriGri. You walk on. I think that these people are missing the point.
I think you're missing the point.

I'm another one of those climbers who isn't terribly sociable when I'm getting ready to lead. Especially at my limit.

My life isn't all about you.
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

I think some basic recognition like "Hi" or even a smile and a nod is only common courtesy, but don't forget, it is easy for somebody focusing on something else and outside to simply not hear you. Don't always assume they are being rude. Being too quick to take offense can also be a big part of the social break down.

Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989

To be honest, I go to a lot of trouble to avoid crowds, so if i'm at a small crag and your party of 8 shows up to toprope gang bang my warmup, i'm going to be upset. I don't mind other parties, but I don't frequent crags with a lot of routes really close together, so if you drop your pack next to mine, its because you intend to do what I am on. I hate waiting on people, and I hate people waiting on me, so people queuing up behind me is a good way to irritate me. There are other crags, you saw my car when you parked, why did you come up here anyway? That's why i'm a dick at the crags.

Choss Chasin' · · Torrance, CA · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 25

Wow, I'm amazed at the several "douchey" responses! I'm not an outwardly social person but as a matter of common courtesy I will at least nod or say hello to fellow climbers outdoors. Isn't it far more awkward to be a jerk and not speak at all to the fellow human beings around you?

When I say hello to some one I don't ask meaningless inane questions. Such as, how are you? what are you climbing? whats your name? That tends to bother some people and put them off. Just say hello and keep moving, if some one wants to talk to you trust me they will!

My rule: Don't be irritating and I won't be a dick!

Kenny Thompson · · Cottage grove oregon · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 560

Fuck ittt

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

As you can see there are so many subjective views on how it should be. keep quite. Be friendly. Don't bring your dog. Don't put chalk all over the place. Don't hog the routes. On and on and on.

Rules won't work. Suggestion won't work. At best a guideline.

It can be summed up like this:

Be mindful for your safety and those around you.
Do your best not to infringe upon the enjoyment of others.

Everything else is a crapshoot.

Bucky · · West Coast · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 5
no1nprtclr wrote:" So, the cast is coming off my ankle Monday, woop woop!!! I'll finally get a softboot and perhaps start rehab. Boy do I have a lot of appreciating to do when I get back out and feel that cold wind on my face, the arduous task of post holing, the wind blowing your rappel ropes, etc, but this time with a bigger smile on my face than ever before.... :) Juan

I've never bothered to post on here before but I thought I needed to throw out a "Hell Ya!" for you. Both my casts are coming off and I'm getting out of the wheelchair this coming Thursday so I can relate. I have never been so stoked just to be able to walk down the trail to the crag. To all the cranky people out there, upon my return to the climbing world my smile is going to be so infectious you'll have no choice but to have a good day out there.
Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
Bucky wrote: I've never bothered to post on here before but I thought I needed to throw out a "Hell Ya!" for you. Both my casts are coming off and I'm getting out of the wheelchair this coming Thursday so I can relate. I have never been so stoked just to be able to walk down the trail to the crag. To all the cranky people out there, upon my return to the climbing world my smile is going to be so infectious you'll have no choice but to have a good day out there.
and THAT is what I want to see....hope to see ya out there!!! :o)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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