Communication when you cannot hear your partner?
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Sometimes I carry a set of tiny walkie talkies on multi-pitch trad routes for communication in case one of us ends up around a corner or out of sight in someway. However, these are items that could possibly be left behind with the use of a pre-established communication system. What system, words, movement, rope tugs, etc does everyone use to communicate with your partner when voices cannot be heard? Thanks in advance. |
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There have been numerous threads on this. Any discussion of walkie-talkies involves people talking about rope tugs. To wit: |
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In times of need. A whistle works great. Saved me and partners alot of unneeded stress.There is a built in wistle on my helmet. Or bring one, Weight is of no concern. |
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A whistle. That's a good idea!! |
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Whistles suck and no one wants to hear your frigging whistling all day. People have been climbing out-of-sight forever and have somehow managed to do it safely without whistles, walkie-talkies and cell phones - figure it out. |
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Funny article about this subject: |
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To me it's crazy how complicated people make it. Have a set plan before you leave the ground; one that doesn't require morse code on the rope or needless noisiness. Things happen, and any system that absolutely relies on noises or rope movement could lead to big trouble. The system outlined below works because my partner and I trust each other with a set system. |
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two thoughts: 1)when the leader has set up a belay and is ready for the 2nd to climb, s/he gives three strong tugs on the rope---the 2nd should start climbing and the rope should be retrieved by the leader. Or 2) as in canada, the leader yells "Secure" meaning he's on belay and the 2nd can climb and the rope is retrieved by the belayer. In either case, if slack develops, that means the 2nd misunderstood the indications that s/he should climb....stop and wait for further tugs or calls. |
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I have had multiple positive experiences with rope-morse. |
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Ancent wrote:Things happen, and any system that absolutely relies on noises or rope movement could lead to big trouble.Except that hasn't been my experience over decades of climbing; the reverse has been true and from years of paying attention to leader movements via the rope I generally always know what and how an out of sight leader is doing. |
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My climbing partner is deaf, so I've a bit of experience with this. However, we've only just started trad, so most of my 3xperience is with top-eoping. |
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I live in New Mexico where the wind blows and blows and then blows some more. We use "Windy day rules" when communication is difficult. If someone feels that communication is going to be difficult they say "Windy day rules apply" and from then on the leader puts the follower on belay immediately after creating the anchor before pulling up the extra rope. So when rope becomes tight the follower is either on belay or the pair are simul-climbing if the leader has not gotten to a belay when the rope runs out. |
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To keep things simple, I tend to use three slow, rhythmic, full arms length pulls to be off belay. Then pull the rope up until its tight. Then let ~2m of slack back down, put the belay on, and then take in the slack nice and snug. |
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Healyje makes a nice point about 'getting a feel' for the rope as your partner climbs. Most climbing situations become pretty obvious when you understand the pattern of rope movement in a climb. |
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Healyje wrote:Whistles suck and no one wants to hear your frigging whistling all day. People have been climbing out-of-sight forever and have somehow managed to do it safely without whistles, walkie-talkies and cell phones - figure it out. From another thread relative to belaying an out-of-sight leader... ------------------------------------------------------ As far as a leader being out-of-sight, here's what I recommend. When you are belaying climbers you can see (as in most all of the time, sport or trad), keep just a hair's breath of tension on the rope with fingers of the hand on the leader side of the belay device (by 'hair's breath' I mean they shouldn't really be able to tell you're even doing it) - i.e. just enough tension so you can always feel/detect the leader's movements through the rope. Are they moving? Resting? Stepping back down? Downclimbing? Or stopping to clip or place gear? Every climber has patterns and rhythms of behavior on lead you can learn via the rope if you climb with them enough. And eventually you can tell what most leaders are doing via the rope unless they are being erratic either by nature, circumstance or due to some peculiar aspect of the climb. But really being much more cognizant of leaders movements via the rope while you can see them will allow you to be far less anxious when they are out of sight. Do it long enough and you'll get to where you generally have a pretty good bead on a leader's state of mind just by what you feel through the rope as they climb. My two cents anyway...This is the solution. Sometimes a VERY simple system of tugs can help clear up confusion, but one should really learn the systems, and go by feel. Sometimes this is the only option!! |
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Ancent wrote:To me it's crazy how complicated people make it. Have a set plan before you leave the ground; one that doesn't require morse code on the rope or needless noisiness. Things happen, and any system that absolutely relies on noises or rope movement could lead to big trouble.THIS. SO MUCH OF THIS. Mind you for most climbs I don't set a "plan". But most climbs aren't going to have communication issues. But I've certainly done when needed such as on long pitched alpine style climbs. Eg. My plan for morderate ground: I'm just going to climb buddy. If I run out of rope and I'm not at a belay I'll just climb until I get to one. If you run out of rope, take me off belay and start climbing... One more thing. If you are leading and communication isn't clear. Don't take up the rope until you are ready to put the person straight onto belay. |
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Here's a simple and straightforward method that works for me and my partners with a little "training": |
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The continuous on belay, +1. Thanks for the idea there, so much better than rope morse code! |
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Healyje wrote: Except that hasn't been my experience over decades of climbing; the reverse has been true and from years of paying attention to leader movements via the rope I generally always know what and how an out of sight leader is doing.I do the same, but are you saying that you've never had an experience where rope drag around an unexpected feature disrupted this "feeling?" It happens, and the "rope-connection" that you speak of can go from a definitive I-feel-everything to grueling/dragging rope where it is impossible to tell if the leader is just bearing through with rope drag (still climbing) or gave up (built a belay and is belaying in slack). Medic741 wrote:The continuous on belay, +1. Thanks for the idea there, so much better than rope morse code!If it's a long climb, you'll never get anywhere quickly or tire yourself out if you're always on belay, especially at the top belay. The key is to have a fluid set of rules known to all. For example, the leader builds the top anchor, sets it up so it is ready to belay the second, pulls slack (not on belay), and the instant the rope gets taught puts it into the belay (happens within five seconds because the leader had this part of the anchor ready to go before pulling slack). The follower knows that once the rope is taught, there's a lag for the leader to put in the belay, and then they're good to go. As another question, regardless of communication methods: What happens if the rope stops moving entirely, and you (the bottom belayer) find out the rope is stuck in a notch halfway up (you know this either because you see it, or knew that this was possible are simply inferring). The leader may either have built a belay or is also trying to free the stuck rope and still leading, but you have no way of knowing. What do you do? Hope that there's a couple pieces of pro above this constriction and start climbing with a prusik to take in slack, hoping that if you fall the constriction, your leader's anchor, or another piece of pro will catch you? Do something more complicated to make sure there is always an anchor for the team? |
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Instead of a Prussik I'd throw your guide plate into guide mode off your belay loop and head up and pray the rope doesn't cut if you fall... |
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The person in the best position to do anything about that is usually the leader. Keep him / her on belay, sit tight for a while, and hopefully you can be glad you chose a partner who knows how to deal with it. |