the first post on FRB after the news of the clean up's being organized. These guys are shameless.

Re(1): PARK/EVANS CLEAN UP
Posted on July 31, 2007 at 03:53:00 PM by bollocks

wow that sounds nifty! will there be a picnic lunch and balloons for the kids????

Thank you to everyone who has worked on organizing the clean up.

Frankly, I'd like to thank the USFS personnel @ Evans for drawing the line & bringing this issue to our attention.

The real cream is rising to the top @ FRB. This guy is suitably named LAME

"Seriously, every one of you who ever hikes out a pad thats not yours. I hope you break your leg when you fall off the boulder next time, specifically because you don't have the pads you needed. The only reason this is a problem because you all chose to create it as such. Sad most of you won't even understand what is meant by that. Sorry you are on such a power trip and feel the need to show your self righteous ego! How about as opposed to stealing the pads from the areas you create an official access trail to the boulders since that will actually decrease impact. Specifically the 1000 spider trails to Chaos and Upper or the vegetation around the boulders specifically evans. Actually you should just take the pads so people continue the destruction. That way you don't need the pads since you destroyed all the trees and anything else in the landing zone. How about cleaning up all of the real garbage that climbers and tourists make. I already do this whenever I find something that is officially trash. Heck I might take the hikers bag next time I see them leave one while look over the ridge since thats trash too. What damage are the pads actually doing to the area and the environment? Seems to me almost all of the climbers and marmots aren't bothered by the extra pads that are there. Especially since they are used which would make them not trash. While doing such removal of said trash. PLEASE consider removing the wooden bridges, the signs, and the tarred parking lot. They all seem to aggravate me and disrupt my nature experience. Not to mention they are there to make the place SAFER. yes I am the anonymous coward but I know I speak for many people."

I got high just from trying to find a stream of logic through it. Oh the banter of a crybaby.

Like any internet forum, there is a mix of different views on FRB just like mp.com. Some of the more recent posts (after lame's) are pretty respectful of the environment and agree that the slashing of pads is pretty lame!

Personally I think the Adopt a Crag clean up days is pretty lame. I am all for the clean up and I think the word is out and the pad owners are going to get there trash out if not, I and many others will slowly start to chip away at it.

I think it is a waste of resources and energy, and it raises too much attention in the park, Use the adopt a day on a worthier project and crag, this clean up issue is an easy one,

The day of clean up could be quite an impact in itself and when 50 people pull out the pile of trash I expect them to find, and the rangers witness the pile of crap in the Bear Lake Parking lot, I think there is going to be some changes and possibly some pretty lame regulations in the future.

besides the organization is adopt a CRAG and last time I checked a pebble was not a crag. maybe the Front Range Bouldering .com tards can organize adopt a pebble day.

PS. yesterday I took out 8 pads from Chaos and I am training hard, I think I can get 10 next time. If you want your pad back you can bid on it on ebay. $$$$$$$$$

I also have a concern with manicuring a landing in a pebble area, If you need to remove the impaling death spike or skull cracking rock, then you are dumbing down the problem. I believe this is the same as chipping or altering the problem to your own level. If you can't wrestle the pebble in its natural state with out altering nature, then leave it for the future generations of pebble wrestlers that will have the vision and sack to push the envelope of what can be wrestled. This is the future and they will change pebble wrestling forever.

Maybe in an effort to show some class and respect we should designate a stashie drop spot for the pads to be stored and this would allow the owners to be able to retrieve their pads for future use in the areas by being transported on thier backs. I will glady ship anyones pad back to them as well if they are not in an area to pick them up. I do not think stealing someones pad and selling it really justifies the situation. Any thoughts???

skiclimber,

It seems like you are harboring some resentment against boulderers that goes beyond the present situation.

I appreciate your willingness to help cleanup, but your efforts also cause divisions within the climbing community that have no need to exist. I am a person who enjoys all types of climbing. I have had some trad friends/partners who, like you, always griped about how boulderers were'nt manly enough or some hogwash. In reality, many of the boulderers that I know are also accomplished traddys (more so than the gripers), but that's not the main point. Consensus about the stashed pads is established. 99% of climbers are on board, with the bouldering subset behind it. Why cause division with your words? Its counterproductive in the long run. Something like SAL's idea of a pad drop sounds good.

Make friends not enemies.

Right on Skiclimber! You deserve a few tall ones for your efforts. I love bouldering and I don't mind Hip-Hop, but I can't stand the Hip-Hop influence boulderers' bring to the crags and boulders- you're a bunch of over-privileged white boys, not Gangstas. I ain't never seen no Cristal bottles stashed under those pads.

I will gladly organize housing the pads and returning them to the owners if need be. Organizers of the clean up for the park and evans are welcome to contact me at jselmanson@sportiva.com
to talk details.

I will be in contact with Seth Murphy and others helping get the ball rolling on these clean ups and like will said making friends not enemies will only strengthen our community as well as preserve our favorite climbing areas.
Cheers,

If the Park superintendent wants that job I would be siked to give it to him. The last thing I want is a grip of stinky ass pads laying around my office or home until some stasher decides he wants it back. But I will do what it takes to get them out of there and return them to the proper owners as I do not think stealing peoples property is any more just then leaving pads to begin with. Although like Avery posted it is more or less lost property and should be impounded by the superintendent which is fine by me. I guess that would be a natural consequence to pad stashing and not getting your pad back would only be the natural outcome. Just thinking of ways to keep the peace and clean up the area at the same time...

Link to FRB discussion:

http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=118>>>>>

Involving the superintendent is a very bad idea.

The NPS should be kept out of it as much as possible. If you think that it is a big pain in the ass to store the pads until someone claims them then it is a sure bet that the park super will also think it is a pain in the ass. Besides the super likely sees the pads as nothing more than trash.

If people want their pads back then they should speak up right now. Otherwise, it's their loss.

The only real issues here are access and environmental damage. If someone doesn't get their pad back because they were too lazy to hike it in and out then I couldn't care less.

Brad,
Point well taken. I think that it is the last thing the park service wants to deal with. We will still work out a solution to be kind and considerate enough of fellow climbers to allow them a chance to get theyre pads back. We will not be storing these for a long amount of time though. It really is a pro-active way to go about removing these stashies rather then give them the finger on the way out and tell them they are SOL.
Pad stashing boulder's are people too :)
cheers

I think that the pads ought to be donated to underprivileged and DESERVING climbers. Maybe taken to the inner-city and used as pads for climbing walls for after school activities? I have little regard and lots of scorn for the argument and/or feelings that the pads "belong" to anyone that leaves them in a way that degrades the resource, period.

according to the regs, the super holds the property for a minimum of 60 days then disposes it. owners trying to reclaim are liable for fees.

As with everything, pack it in/pack it out!!! There is no excuse for leaving your trash in the park!

Fair enough, Wade. I guess the mp.com & other climbing bunch doesn't appreciate pads being left about wilderness areas.

I guess we'll see you around.

rmsusa,

I think there are some major differences between a tourist losing a cell phone or a hand bag by accident and a climber leaving his/her crash pad on purpose. One of the biggest differences being that the crash pads have a specific user group that can be targeted with regulations. Since we are all part of that user group, it would seem to be in our best interest not to aggravate the powers that be if we can avoid doing so. What do you think the super would rather hear in his next meeting?

A) There are some climbers that are asking for a place to store up to 20 crash pads that they removed from Chaos Canyon. They would like for the NPS to store the pads in hopes that the pads can be returned to their owners.
or
B) You know all those crash pads in Chaos Canyon that we have discussed in previous meetings? Well it looks like the climbing community became aware of the situation and removed them. They are all gone.

It seems to me like the situation is starting to resolve itself anyway and that perhaps half of the offending pads have already been removed.


Wade,
Nice troll.