Hey all, I was wondering if i could get a few opinions on how other climbers/boulderers feel about stashed crash pads up in the park. Last summer I went bouldering at Emerald Lake and came across some pads that had been left. At first I thought that I would come across the owners of the pads and that they were not actually abandoned. Later in the day I was told by other climbers that people stash them so that they don't have to carry so many in each time. I think this is pretty lame. I also seem to remember that the NPS was none to thrilled with the idea as well, and that they view the pads as trash.
Last Sunday I went bouldering in Chaos Canyon for the first time. I was by myself and tagged along with some other climbers I met who new the area. This area is great and there was no shortage of climbers utilizing it. My problem is that I still saw a lot of stashed pads. This bothers me because I don't really see any reason for it. Not only is it in my opinion unnecessary to leave pads behind but it threatens future access to this area. The group I was with was ten people and we had nine crash pads. More than enough to make even the worst landings in the canyon relatively safe.
I will be heading up there again on Sunday and am thinking about removing as many of the stashed pads as I can carry. I'd like to make it known that I don't need these pads and am not trying to piss people off I just worry that we, as climbers, are not respecting The Park. I'd love to here from the climbing community on this, and if it seems like I'm in the wrong I won't do anything.

Chris

I think that stashed crash pads are completely lame. I don't mean to launch any sort of personal attack on people i don't know, but personally i think leaving trash in the park is pretty bad. RMNP is a beautiful place that deserves a "leave no trace" mentality. I would never leave a bunch of cams (or any other equipment)at the bottom of a climb and expect them to be there the next day. I say you remove as many as you can and sell them on e-bay/craigs list; donating the proceeds to the access fund.

You might head over to FrontRangeBouldering.com as there is already a lengthy discussion going on.

I don't consider myself a boulderer, but I think stashing pads in RMNP is poor form.

I agree that leaving pads at the base of the boulders is completely lame. It is disrespectfull to all the other people that use the area as well as climbers like me who climb in the high country for a pristine experience. Leaving pads at the base of boulders because you don't want to carry them is just like leaving a toprope up so you don't have to lead the climb everytime you want to do it. If you can't handle the approach don't do the climb. Sketchy landings are part of bouldering, if you don't want to deal with them then climb in the gym.

Wow.
I can't believe people actually do that!! It's a freaking wilderness area!!!
The bouldering fad has already done enough damage to the fragile alpine environment...but to leave a crash pad because they don't want to carry it? What do they weigh...10 pounds?

I'm actually tempted to hike up there and start disposing!

josh

I have heard recent reports of many pro's (sponsored climbers) hiking up to Chaos with nothing on their backs. Does this mean that some elite climbers are stashing pads? If this is the case, it is unfortunate that those in the spotlight are not doing their part to keep the area pristine. One of the problems with stashed pads occurs when a marmot chews them up, leaving a mess. I know many that boulder at Chaos and all of them carry pads up and down. Are the pads really that heavy? Is it the continuing trend of our lazy society creeping into the climbing community? Does carrying a pad up only allow you to pinch V11 instead of V12? I feel the climbing/bouldering community could agree that these pads be removed COMPLETELY. The alternative may be NPS involvement. Let's not let a lazy few spoil what some have worked so hard to establish.

Pack it in... pack it out... This is how we roll in Colorado. If anyone needs a free crash pad I guess we all know where they are now. It's sad to go to such a beautiful place and see a bunch of stashed gear. Hiking with weight only makes you stronger, quit being a bunch of pussies and leave with what you brought...

Two ways to go about it:
Claim them in the name of making the park a more beautiful place.
Or
Pour salt water on them and let the marmot feast commence

Hey guys, those are fixed pads and are there for someones project. Probably something too hard for you to climb, so leave them there, they aren't booty. No one bailed off those pads.

I heard this story from an old-timer, some non climber partiers in Camp 4 were sleeping in post all-nighter and some annoyed climbers drained the oil from Tuna in Oil all over their tents etc. Apparently they woke to a massive raccoon and bear infestation... bet that'd do a number on those pads!

okay, "fixed pads" ??

there are so many things wrong with this, I don't know where to start. maybe the Code of Federal Regulations will do:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jul20061500/edocke>>>>>

[CITE: 36CFR2.22]
...
TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY
CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
PART 2_RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION
Sec. 2.22 Property.
(a) The following are prohibited:
(1) Abandoning property.
(2) Leaving property unattended for longer than 24 hours, except in locations where longer time periods have been designated or in
accordance with conditions established by the superintendent.
(3) Failing to turn in found property to the superintendent as soon as practicable.
(b) Impoundment of property. (1) Property determined to be left
unattended in excess of an allowed period of time may be impounded by
the superintendent.

"Fixed Pads" ??????? What part of this is just plain ludicrous or am I way to Old's Cool. Get them the f**** out of the park. End of Discussion in my book.

What's really despicable about this sort of thing is the short sightedness of these jokers. Plus when the Park service shuts down an area due to over use, it's shut down to everyone not just jive talking boulders. I have some fond memories of upper Chaos as a kid, fact is nobody went up there at all except Hallet climbers foolish enough to try that descent....

I think it's really sad, while access issues are so fragile there are still those who insist on leaving their pads at Chaos Canyon & Mt Evans. They try to compare pad stashing to leaving fixed ropes & quick draws on routes. Check out the recent posts on frontrangebouldering.com

I took a hike to Mt Evans recently & found stashed pads. I am not totally sure how many as there was a lot of chewed up cordura & blue foam chunks that rodents had chewed, from a larger piece of foam, blowing about all over the grass & in the bushes. I guess I'm reluctant to say exactly how many pads I saw as it's shameful.

Pack it out, thats all I have to say. I used to Boulder regularly in Chaos Canyon 6 years ago, I remember seeing a pad. People are just plain lazy. These boulderers are fit enough to hike up several times a week & write all about it on their blogs. I went up 2 years ago & couldn't believe the trash & many new trails, severe erosion & stashed pads. In 2005 2 friends of mine tried to organise a 'Clean Up' of rotten pads from RMNP. They recieved so much slander & anonymous threats they wondered why even try to do some thing positive. Quite sad really. Most pad stashers are kids who need educating. Most boulderers think it is wrong to stash pads. I'm just wondering how long before they ban bouldering in the park, or wilderness areas like Mt Evans.

I would like to preface by saying that I hate bouldering, and the Bouldering Issue in the mags turns my stomach. That said, when "alpine" climbers in Yosemite backcountry, Winds, Lone Peak Cirque, base of the Diamond (the list could go on and on) stash gear (sometimes for a few days, sometimes for the summer), it is not a problem. In fact, it is almost given the "Dude, right on. Your smart" attitude. At the very least, I have never heard anyone really complain about it before, using environmental and access reasons and such. So what bothers you about the pads? Are they just lying all over the park in plain sight? Are they hidden under boulder overhangs?

I can see both sides of the argument. I don't feel strongly one way or the other. I just find it humorous that this has been a technique used in the backcountry by roped climbers for decades, but now everyones pantys get all in a bunch?

Nobodys panties are in a bunch. Crashpads get chewed up by rodents & make a mess in wilderness areas. They have foam in them & rodents like to make nests, THAT is the problem. Having stashed packs myself I know they fit into a smaller hole or crevice than a large crashpad. Rodents generally don't like chewing on ones rack.

Allright cacheing gear is something that Is good or bad depending on the context. If you are stashing your trad rack under a rock @ the diamond (or anywhere for that matter) b/c you frequent the place there really isn't an issue, chances are that it is out of sight (unless you are wealthy enough to replace a trad rack on a dime)and precautions have been taken to keep the critters from turning your slings into confetti. A giant piece of foam, cordura, and microfleece is another story. Firstly, anyone who has encountered a marmot knows that the creature is not vicious enough to cut off your johnson, but it will chew anything that is salty into little pieces. Secondly, it takes a big rock to hide a bouldering pad, so chances are they are not well hidden. Dude, you paid money for that thing, why are you gonna just leave it out for the taking? As we have read the laws on pack in pack out we all know there are exceptions to the rule. I say out of sight, out of mind so long as it isn't refuse. Personally I value what little gear I have accumulated far too much to just leave it somewhere. I personally could give a shit about someone stashing their gear at a crag as long as I can't see it or find it. I would be stoked to find it though, they say it's good to have a lot of duplicate cams @ Indian Creek and I already have my plans to go there in the fall.

This has been going on for, I'd guess maybe five years. We aren't talking about 1 or 2 or 5 pads, we are talking sometimes about dozens. When I lived in Estse I would joke about going up there and having a pad bonfire...


Hayduke lives baby!

I am in agreement with most of the people who replied to this thread, and I think stashing pads is a bad idea. In fact, I don't really understand the practice at all. Unlike some other comments, I also believe that stashing gear at the base of climbs, if you are hiking out, is bad form. I believe that if you are hiking out, you should take everything you came in with; if not more.

I think most of the people who stash the pads see no reason not to, and many will stop if they realize that there are consequences. They have been doing it for so long that they don't believe that anything negative will result. Furthermore, a wilderness ethic has not been instilled into many young boulders and they don't understand how much the trash and stashed pads takes away from others experience in the park.

Probably, the answer is to start removing the pads and posting in a public place and on the internet where the pads are located and how to get them back. Some will claim that the pads should not be returned, but I believe that will only cause undue tension within the climbing community.

We may very well lose access to the areas around Evans because of this also.

i am a boulderer, and call me cheap or poor, but i think pads are expensive, and anyone who wants to leave them in the park to be eaten by rodents should call me up, cuz id rather use them right....150 bucks a pop?? come on...spoiled brats

Well, it seems as though most of you believe that stashing pads in the park or anywhere else for that mater is not an acceptable practice. I don't buy the argument that because roped climbers have been stashing gear for decades at areas like Yosemite and the Diamond that it is okay to do so here. My problem with this is that it threatens future access, The Park is aware of this practice and it is, in my opinion, only a matter of time before we have regulations regarding bouldering in The Park. Unless we police ourselves.
Also I'd like to respond to Caughtinside's comments that they "are there for someone's project. Probably something too hard for you to climb...they aren't booty." I'm not sure if you are serious with this comment. Why does how hard I climb have anything to do with this issue? If these climbers are so badass and they can climb so hard they surely must be badass enough to carry a few pads in and out. Besides I already said that I don't need these pads and when I do clean up the area I will post on this site how they can get them back it they want too.
Chris