Tigger has a good sized loose block under the roof. Don't know how bad it is...I've never touched it, but it has a large X chalked on it.

Ok, here it is. Something that is going to piss a lot of people off. But, know one has gone here, so I will. And I'm expecting some angry rebuttals. But, I thought about it a lot while I was climbing Grand Giraffe Sunday touching a dozen large blocks with fractures all around.

You will likely be pissid off if you believe SUV's kill people. NO, people driving SUV's carelessly kill people. You will likely get pissed off if you believe guns kill people. No, people carelessly or violently using guns kill people. And, what seems most analogous to loose rock in Eldo is: You will likely be pissed off if want to kill every shark in the ocean after a shark attack.

I am not necessarily apposed to the Trundle Eldo Party. The intentions are very good. But, we are not getting to the root of the issue. As climbers, we make choices, critical choices. We decide where to climb, when to climb, who our partners will be, what gear to use, to wear a helmet or not, to climb beneath other parties or not, to belay standing or seated, seated gives you little chance to move quickly from rock fall, to belay directly below your leader or slightly off to the side, to pull on loose rock (if you climb in Eldo you most likely have), to tell your belayer to get under the roof at the belay on Slimy Spoon cause there's some loose rock up here or tell them nothing and pull on it anyway, to make a plan with your partner whether you will rap or lower off or make no plan at all, to reconfirm with your partner when on top of your route before you lower off or not at all. The list goes on and on and so do the consequences or our choices.

The bottom line. All accidents are a result of choices, directly or indirectly, by making a choice or series of choices, or making no choice at all is still a choice. The only way to make climbing safe is to remove the human element, that is, remove the humans. Then, and only then, will climbing injuries cease. And while we're at it lets remove caffeine and nicotine, alcohol, bicycles, motorcycles, cars, planes, speed boats, ski boats, fishing boats and surfing. Then we will all be "safe".

People, I've witnessed 2 serious accidents in the last 9 days and participated in one of the rescues. Sleeping has been difficult since. You can not imagine the reality of a climbing accident until you've been there. Shouting "stay with us" cause you think he is dying while his eyes are rolling up inside his head, bone sticking several inches out in space with a foot hardly attached, blood dripping from his head and neck. This is reality.

We must talk and learn from our mistakes or most likely others' mistakes cause climbing accidents don't usually give us second chances. We must not blame our gear, the rock or the rescue team. We must pay attention all the time, 100% of the time. Lets not fall victim to the most common killer of all in climbing....casualness!

But wait, we are human.

"You also have to be a little over the edge to think that Steve intention was to rid Eldo of every loose rock. "

Steve's wasn't the only post in the thread. He seems like a sensitive guy who maybe felt it was directed at him, but it was not.

My cynicism probably stems from sharing Greg's observations and feelings about the issue.

Greg wrote: We must talk and learn from our mistakes or most likely others' mistakes cause climbing accidents don't usually give us second chances. We must not blame our gear, the rock or the rescue team. We must pay attention all the time, 100% of the time. Lets not fall victim to the most common killer of all in climbing....casualness!


The mistake was leaving that loose rock in on the DG...period.

"The mistake was leaving that loose rock in on the DG...period."

I would tend to agree, but pitching something from that route is problematic with the trail directly below and partially obscured at that. I would go on to say the most recent party to notice the condition is morally bound to pitch the rock. Being able to post to the internet these days makes that obligation more - shall we say - convenient. I stop short of seeing anything about the situation as black and white as you state above, however.

Greg D- sorry you had to witness two recent accidents, but I'm sure the victims appreciated your assistance.

My intention in this forum was to make a list of imminently dangerous rock to proactively remove so that entirely avoidable accidents (like D-G) won't happen again. There will be no "Trundle Eldo Party". What a can of worms-- you got to love the internet!

I'm going back to my original plan which is to take action and be quiet.

See you out there!

thanx for the post steve. the intent is good, but as you're aware, we could update a list every day and still not be current on the loose and dangerous. even then, not everyone will want to (or need to) check on the status of a particular route. objective hazard is one of the reasons we choose climbing over pinball, and personal responsibility for safety will always be paramount. it's great to have as much awareness as possible, and people should be appraised of the worst of the worst, but runout and loose climbs are an integral part of the game. we can't close the dolomite range or bury the rotwand any more than we should try to trundle wantonly or bolt all the scary leads. even sport climbs and the gym can be dangerous- lousy belaying can be more frightening than loose rock. let's be careful out there.