The recent accident on Doub-Griffith suggests the need for proactive removal of dangerous loose rock. The first step is to inventory. Please add on.

Slimy Spoon (Redgarden): wedged block pitch 3
Northwest Corner (Bastille): detached flake pitch 3
The Yellow Traverse (Wind Tower): detached block near end of traverse.

Rewritten. top of pitch 7. couch size pillar. wobbling round.

Rotwand Wall.

EVERYTHING on Saturnalia. Way good route, even amazing, just a bunch of massive loose flakes. IMO.

I may be referring to the same thing that SAl is talking about but there a coffee table sized flake, 6" thick on the upper ZOT Face. When that thing goes it's going to hit the sloping ledge 200' above the staging area, shatter into bomblets and spray all the people sitting around on the ground. It's going to be bad.

SAL and Mal, are we talking about the big fridge sized block leaning on the ledge just below Rebuffat's arete? The one some mistakingly set a belay on? My partner did that back in 2003.

I'll add that I can make it out to a trundling party any Tuesday or Friday for the next couple of weeks. Midweek trundles seem to work out best.

We might have to glue enhance those Rotwand routes, Bob. Or maybe we can just bury the whole wall and let Nature finish the job.

There is a loose flake if you traverse from NW corner's P3 into the final 25ft of Inner space on the Bastille.

There is a loose block above and to the right (~8ft) of the P2 belay on 3 Old Farts.

There's a great deal of choss and assorted debris at the top of V3 and Gonzo (Cadillac Crag). It's not a huge danger (most of it is small stuff) but just about everyone knocks something off when they climb the routes in this area.

Haven't been up there in a while, but the flake you stand on in the crux of the 10 pitch on yellow spur was always spooky.

The Green Spur, pitch above the Red Ledge. If instead of veering left for Rewritten, one veers right, heading towards a right angling roof, just below the roof, one passes and probably uses a chalk covered, refrigerator sized block which appears to be balanced on about 4 square inches of rock. If this block pitches, it will probably fall onto the terrace where parties rope up for Green Spur, Rewritten, Great Zot etc.

This location and seriousness of this block is also described in Anonymous Coward's Green Spur comment of 10 September 2001 .

When we're done here, we need to go fix the Black Canyon.

How about that block on upper Green Spur. I refuse to repeat this route.

Trying to sanitize Eldo of loose rock seems like an obviously futile and destructive proposition.

Sport climbing areas are generally more cleaned and trundled out. It's another option.

If loose rock really, really scares you, then you should quit climbing because it's everywhere and it will never all be 'fixed'.

While some blocks are begging to get trundled and probably should be, as on the DG, the ones on Rewritten and Green Spur and a few others posted above have been sitting there for decades and will probably remain for many more. A few of these are huge blocks that would reek mass destruction if they were pushed off. As these blocks fall, they often jar others loose. So, where do you draw the line?

Learning to recognize, avoid, climb around or bail off these things is a skill, and there will always be risks. I'd be interested to hear more details on what the DG climbers were thinking and what decisions they made just before the accident.

Jed, the intent of this forum is to identify dangerous loose flakes that should be trundled. The D-G was a good example.

I agree it is unnecessary (and unrealistic) that all loose rock in the Canyon be dealt with, or that Eldo can be "sanitized". Two of the examples I gave (Slimy Spoon, NW Corner) are accidents waiting to happen and should be trundled. I'm NOT suggesting that every piece of suspect rock be trundled, nor that we all embark on a trundling frenzy.

One of the prerequisites for climbing safely in Eldorado is the ability to identify, inspect, evaluate, and climb safely through loose rock zones. But if there is a well-travelled route with a definite loose flake or block just waiting to go, it should be dealt with proactively IMHO.

Hey Jed, I am guessing that the climbers on DG had no clue about the looseness of the hold until it was grabbed. It was right above the crux section of the first pitch only about 30 feet up and was big and looked solid.

I agree that care should be taken in trundeling some of the large blocks as the damage could be great and the scaring bad. I have considered bringing up a haulbag or placing a bolt in a couple flakes in the Platte then lowering them to the ground.

Ive also seen flakes bolted to the wall which maybe could be an option? The wobbling block on Rewritten is going to lead to a tradegy one of these days, I have seen more than one party build an anchor in that thing.

I would think that anyone capable or experienced in building anchors on an Eldo multipitch would understand the idiocy of using that fridge-sized block on Rewritten but obviously that's not reality.

If someone ever decides to trundle that block I hope they videotape and post it online.

I'd say almost by definition all this needs to be on the Action Committee for Eldorado website rather than here; but for now gathering them some place is probably better than nothing.

Thanks for starting this forum Steve. Agreed this shouldn't set loose a trundling free for all. The point is to get a list of high priorities and deal with them as safely as possible. For sure ACE and the park should be involved before a bunch of bounty hunters armed with crowbars have at it.

I pulled on a microwave size block on the Great Zot today that rocked on me. It'll come down soon if anyone pulls very hard and committed to it.

It's just below the tree belay about 20 feet right of the base of the right facing dihedral that is to the right of Rebuffat's Arete.

Loose and weak flakes abound up there, but this block is just perched and waiting for someone to pull it off.

Not sure if the last poster and I are talking about the same block, but I also just did the Great Zot with the direct Zot Face finish. On the fourth pitch where you traverse left and then back right to a small tree, 10 feet to the left of the belay station, there is a 6x6x30 inch block waiting to go. I touched it and it almost came off. There were a ton of parties below on the Red Ledge or Rewritten that would have been directly below its flight path. I placed a large chalk X on it, but this thing REALLY needs to go.

steve, thanks again for this fourm!

you have done so many years of service for eldo,
and the climbing comunity!

why do people post silly things like some replies here. . .
(i won't name call) but, where else would be a better place
for this disussion? no where!

this site gets way more traffic (by local climbers) than
other sites, or sites you can only post a vote on.(ace)

anyway, keep up the good work, and let me know if ya need
me to help you rig anything for safe extraction!

While I think it is great to create a catalogue of loose rock for everyone's awareness, I stand with the others who are against trundling large flakes and other loose rock. Pulling off the big stuff (like on Rewritten and the Zot Face) will likely severely alter/damage climbs, the cliff face, and the base area. Loose rock is the nature of Eldo, and I always tap everything before pulling on it, especially there.

This inventory can serve two purposes:
1) identify loose and hazardous rock that should be proactively trundled;
2) identify loose and hazardous rock that should NOT be proactively trundled, but can serve to inform climbers venturing onto these routes.

Eldorado is full of loose rock and IN A VERY FEW INSTANCES loose rock should be trundled. Again, the intent of my post was NOT to start a trundling frenzy.

The area around Rewritten is rife with loose rock, but trundling large blocks here would only damage the routes, would not nec. create a safer area, but could (and most likely would) create a more hazardous situation with falling rock loosening up rock below.

The Park will assist by closing trails etc. but will not take any role in this, nor (I assume) would FHRC/ACE. This has to a a climber generated effort, and a limited one at that.

Thanks.

Steve...anyone who looks at this tread as a negative is a self-centered wack-job.

Good job on the tread and all the work you have done in the park.

Let me know if you need my help.