Heels over Heads 

This route is actually called "Heels over Heads", and was first climbed, without any bolts, by Peter Williams and myself in 1979. The dome was commonly called Knome Dome. We rated it 5.9+ R, and climbed the route to the top of the dome. This is not the first time one of my routes, or Brian Becker's, or Brian Teale's routes in the canyon have been "FA'ed" by a subsequent party.

The subsequent FA party should remove the bolts and do their best to patch the holes.

I think Steve Cheyney put the 2 bolts in the lower slab below the roof back in the mid-eighties, so they are not exactly new....

Stewart,
It was definitely not Steve Cheney who placed those bolts. We actually put an entry into the Golden Book of Bullshit at the Cobbler after the FA in '79, so Steve would have known about the route, given that he was (and still is!) the Keeper of the Book.

I first noticed the bolts on the lower face and the anchor above the roof in the early nineties, while working on the river with the USFS. The bright, silver hangers reflecting in the sun were kinda hard to miss when driving up the road. I always suspected it was Schmausser who had retro-bolted it, but didn't have the proof until he posted his "FA" on Mountain Project this week. I have no desire to chop the bolts - I would have done that many years ago if that were the case. Quite frankly, I'd rather leave it as a tribute to Bill's communication and retro-bolting skill.

Peter...don't know if it is so much Bill's communication as Muff keeping a pitbull like hold on the book. Some time in the early 80s the book was taken from MC. I asked Muff a number of times to let me see the book when working on my guide to 11 Mile. Never happened!

Not that it really matters but the book was still at the MC when I left the Springs in '87.

Actually fellas, River Madness is the 'direct start' via the hard slab below HoH. Having climbed HoH with both Becker and Cheney, they both generaly started just left of the hard slab and 5th classed 5.9 (no gear) up to the roof. Randy Zuckerman and I drilled the two lower bolts on the lead almost 20 years ago. They should probably be listed as separate routes or River Madness as an alternate start. Either way, I really don't care but I know how 'sensitive' you guys are ;)

Franky we'd all be better off if they removed the FA box on these routes, IMHO.

Cheers

Gee, I can't help but notice a few inconsistencies here. Bill, if you had previously climbed HOH (twice, apparently, although BB has no recollection of ever climbing in the canyon with you), and knew of its existance, why didn't you mention that in the description above that this was a "variation". In the description, you describe climbing up an "easy" slab past the bolts, but then say it's a "direct start via the hard slab"...which is it?

I've climbed the route since the bolts were put in, and you can clip them from the line we climbed. It seems, that at best, you admit to cramming a 25' bolted variation within arm's reach of a trad line, then retro-bolting a convenience anchor at the top of the first pitch. At worst, are you admitting to knowingly retro-bolting an existing trad route - which is it?

You probably would be better off just admitting you didn't know the route had been climbed - no harm, no foul, admit the mistake and try not to do it again. The one statement I do know is true is that you really don't care.

Your "sensitive" pal, Pete.

Pete,

You are quite correct, I don't really care about the whole ownership thing, I find the politics of climbing to be largely pejorative and immaterial. However, I do recognize that such matters do concern you profoundly and while we would disagree as to their substance, I do respect your interest. Ergo, I have amended the routes to accurately reflect what you believe is your FA, listing the other climb as a variant.

How's that for sensitivity :)

Cheers

Bill,
I'm afraid you completely miss the point. I really couldn't care less if you claimed the FA of every single route I have ever done. You may have noticed that I have never added any of my routes to this website - I have no interest in tooting my horn to boost my pathetic ego - and I believe my climbing record stands for itself. The issue here is your disregard and distain for the people who were climbing in this area before you arrived at Colorado College, and your excessive reliance upon, and ill-considered drilling of bolts. This is not about one route, but the dozens of routes that have been retro-bolted in Elevenmile and elsewhere in the South Platte. I would argue that this is not a question of ownership or politics, but one of community ethics and mutual respect. Retro-bolting existing routes is still considered generally poor form, and is not considered an acceptable practice by the majority of climbers.