Astro Dog 

Moderate meaning 5.10?? Almost every pitch of this route untl the exit slabs checks in at 5.10 or harder. Sure theres some munge, but there are those beautiful cracks above the bivy ledge..

I'm somewhere between A.C. and Matt in my opinion of this route's quality. Astro Dog is a good route, but may not warrant a 3-star rating. The lower crack pitches offer some great climbing and rock, while there is at least 400 feet of exit bushwacking that isn't much fun. Between these two extremes is a lot of good 5.10 climbing, and some junk. In other words, sounds like the Black Canyon to me.

The topo above looks pretty good, although I've always felt that "schematic-type" topos can be pretty useless in this climbing area. The pitch 10 looks different from what I remember- belaying at the base of the 5.11+ groove may be a better approach. This section is sketchy and difficult to protect, and it is nice to have your belayer close by, if only to provide moral support. For a long time there was a fixed slider at the start of the groove, but I've been told it is gone, and one can therefore expect a bit of excitement establishing oneself in the crux. For those of you with a copy of Jeff Achey's new book "CLIMB! the history of Colorado rock climbing", this pitch is pictured on the cover.

As you may know, the name derives from the FA party's discovery at the base of the climb of a decaying poodle carcass- the remnants of a poor little pooch who had taken the big dive from the rim. For those of you with a penchant for collecting routes, Astro Dog belongs to the "Astro" series of routes (all must-do routes) including Astroman in Yosemite, Astro Hulk in the Sierras, Astro Elephant at Elephant's Perch in Idaho, Astro Monkey at Smith, Astro Yam at Yamnuska, and several others.

A compelling 3-level quality rating system for the Black Canyon is simply "worth repeating", "worth doing once", and "not worth doing". Astro Dog is certainly worth doing once. It would be up to each climber to decide, once they have done the route, whether it is worth repeating.

Can anyone comment on how runout/dicey the 5.11- face climbing on pitch three is? I'd heard of people french-freeing the .11+ pitch (although Steve's comment makes that sound really hairy, maybe that was before the fixed piece pulled), which would make the .11- P3 the apparent free-climbing crux.

Also, I'm curious about the non-rappel options for approaching the wall (I hate rappelling!). The new guidebook and Rock Climbing Colorado give sharply conflicting beta for this. Some vague notes in the visitor center binder make these approaches sound really dicey, but with no details.

Well, looks like I stirred up quite the controversy! I think some of you guys might monitor this site a little closely. As to the 5.11- pitch. There is a fixed head and an old bolt protecting the crux. The head looks OK, and the bolt belongs in a museum. It's a rusted out leeper hanger (remember those got recalled), with what looks like a nail holding it in. My partner led the pitch a totally sowed it up. Following the pitch, I wasn't sure what kind of weight the gear would hold, but I don't think it would all rip out.

As to the 5.11+ pitch, I think you could probably french free it if it were a concern. The climbing is a cool palming a pressing leaning corner that shouldn't be missed.

When I did this route last fall (late Sept.) there was a somewhat dubious looking fixed nut in the lower section of the 11+ crux pitch - essentially just when you're getting into the "fun stuff".Since then, I've also heard that it may indeed be gone. There is gear to be found however. My partner did an excellent job through the crux, calmly placing a small TCU mid-way through the toughest section of the flare. Have to admit though that I'm anxious about this section when I head back to do this route again (Steve, does that mean this is a 3-star route in my book?). I definitely had a good leg burn going from the stem by the time I exited onto the crumbly rock at the top of the crux - double the burn for stopping to place gear on lead. We had slightly different belays than noted on the topo, with a belay just after exiting the steep groove.

As for the non-rappel approach, this is the way we decided to go. It makes for a long day (or day and 1/2...). We went down the Cruise Gully, across the tyrollean (very nicely rigged last fall), then up the slope to the base. Pretty straight forward, but longer and more involved.

The raps are relatively straightforward, but require some careful attention to find a few. Topo on these looks good. As I recall, the 4th rappel requires some work to get to the anchors for the 5th. Stay hard left while rapping - and I remember having to do some swinging around to get back up to the ledge (top of pitch 8). From there down, the raps were uneventful. Rap anchors were a mix of bolts and fixed gear, and all seemed solid then.

Just a general plea to the Canyon gods and all nice climbers. On Sat. May 17, I fell about 50' on the tenth pitch of the Astro Dog. Despite being one of the stupidest and scariest events of my climbing career, I am o.k. thanks to the heroic rescue efforts of the Gunnison Posse, the Western State Search and Rescue and the Park Service. If anyone does this route soon, or has already done it, they will find the crux corner and the rotten shit above laced with about half a rack and two skinny ropes. The ropes are beat, but if you have pity on a jacked up climber, I would love the gear back. It actually belongs to my partner Jason Seaver. I fucked up and would love to return HIS gear if possible. I can be reached at doobies78@hotmail.com or 970 577 0209I will no doubt be home all day every day as I am recovering from a broken sacrum and other minor injuries.

Thank you much, Justin DuBois

What do I know? But I think that this is one of the best routes in Colorado. I have done it three times with Eric Johnson and we had a blast! As for bad rock, maybe I'm used to the "Black" but I thought the rock was fine. Don't remember anything loose. We have done 2 new variations to the route. #1 Start with the flakes route about 2 pitches up you get to a ledge. Go to the right side of this and "down climb" the hand crack about 30-40 feet then do the wildest traverse on finger ledge leading right, the only gear is at the end of the traverse, a med.nut, make crux moves up a shallow obtuse corner, (remove nut after passing it) then right to bolt anchor on Astro Dog 3rd pitch. Rated 5.11 s

#2 After crux dihedral, belay, then instead of moving left, follow leaning corner system to the right for 55m. to grassy ledge on rap route.5.11+ Escape left to join Astro [Dog] behind huge flake. Hard and sustained. Chip Ruckgaber

Awesome photo Seaver!!!!

Justin D.--glad to hear that you are ok. I was in the canyon that day (I think you guys must have been rapping in right after us--remember the guys who couldn't find the rap anchors). Anyway, we had a true Black adventure that day, and it was midnight by the time we topped out, amid floodlights and fire trucks. The rescue crew all wanted to know if we had seen you guys, but until then we didn't even know anybody was still down there (we thought they were waiting to ticket us for not signing in). They had not yet sent anyone down in the Canyon by the time we took off, and as we later enjoyed our beer and burritos, and all of the other comforts of the rim, we couldn't help but think of someone having a terrible night down in that canyon. It rained all the next day, and we couldn't find out anything about the rescue, so it is good to finally hear that you guys made it out ok. As for your gear, I'm sorry to say that I can't help you, but I hope that works out for you, and good luck healing.

As of 9/10 there are two fixed stoppers right next to each other in the upper crux. I personally didn't think that the crux was all that hairy. I found the portion immediately after the crux in the rotten dihedral to be far more spicy. Save a 00 tcu for the rotten section. Also there is a lower crux which I have been told is the original route. It goes at .11+ and should not be missed. After pitch 4 break right on easy terrain, climb a pocketed face and aim for a dihedral with a thin crack going through a small roof. Belay at the base of the dihedral at a bush and "fixed hex" (I pulled it out easily with my fingers, but put it back). The dihedral is very high quality and one of the best pitches on the route. It also allows you to get to the bivy ledge in 6 pitches. This pitch may also be part of the Goldberg Special.

I agree with Matt's first comments: this route is way over sprayed and written up. George Lowe and I did this in the mid 1990's mostly because I was lured into thinking it was a classic in the sense of Astro-man is to the valley what Astro-dog is to the BC - What an idiot I was! We both agreed that this was not worth repeating and if we had known better we would not have done it in the first place. We have both touched a lot of loose rock in our days and this route has plenty of crap; my favorite being the exfoliating off-width pitch. The better pitches are low on the route and then except for one 5.10 hand and fist pitch high up the route, it gets progessively worse. The crux pitch was really a joke - 10 feet of 5.11+ with a ledge right after and then 80? feet of loose 5.9 and 5.10... more like crux section. This is really only a route to do after you have done most of the other routes in the canyon!

Hi...this post got me thinking. My partner and I are wanting to do either Stoned Oven or Astrodog in the Black and are trying to decide which. These are the 11+ routes that you hear the most about. The alleged classics. You hardmen out there...which is the better quality route (I notice Stoned Oven isn't even on the site), and which overall is the harder route? Which is diceir and spicier?! easier to do in a day?? We've done a few grade Vs down there like Cruise and Southern Arete, so it's not like we don't have Black Canyon experience, and we're looking to step it up a notch, but it's not like we noramlly cruise 5.11s either, we lead them but we certainly don't cruise them! And sometimes we whip, etc.

Thanks for your help

Stoned Oven is a much better route than Astrodog, and it is also significantly more sustained, with some hard crack and face on it. I give it 3 stars easily. Either of these is quite a step up from the Scenic Cruise or S, Arete, but of the 2, Astrodog is probably closer to the "next step" than Stoned Oven.

Note that the rappel topo in BC Climbs contains a significant error: the 5th rappel is shown as ending (at the anchor for the 6th) directly climber's left of and even with the "Two Boulder Bivy" ledge. In reality, the anchor is about 50 feet above and left of the bivy ledge, and is hard to spot from above. This is espcially significant if you intend to swing over to the bivy ledge in order to leave anything there--you should do this while making the 6th rappel, rather than at the end of the 5th as the topo would indicate. Also, the anchor for 5th rappel is shared with the belay anchor on route at the top of pitch 9 (on the guidebook topo)--the 10+ flare.

For you Front Rangers who are a little bit disgruntled with this routes quality, might I suggest the Flakes Route? It kinda has somewhat of a reverse paradoxsimilar to A.D. but it goes the other way - It gets a bad rap in several publications (ow, runout, rotten/crumbly crux) but it is actually quite good! The ow aren't that bad (5.9) and just about every B.C. route has some runout. The right leaning rotten crux up high however is quite fun however and maybe just a little terrifying. The best way to do the route is to start the first two pitches of A.D. then scoot left and cruise an awesome fingers/ hands crack up to the off widths. These ow pitches ascend clean rock and have [decent] pro (you can lug a #4 expando tube for the crux squeezer if ya want). Anyway this is a good route and after doing a half dozen S.Chasm routes it is probably my favorite. I'm sure this line is the first one everyone notices from the north side then they get all freaked out about it's reputation. The BLACK is a beautiful place.....Cheers!!!

Anyone who has ever wanted to do this route but has been scared by the grade, just go do it. All except 2 5.10 pitches felt like easy 5.9 (compare to the Cruise or Journey Home). The 5.11 pitches felt more like 5.10+, especially if you are good at chimneying. The 5.11+ crux can be chimneyed almost the whole way and is pretty cruiser, especially if you step left and get a rest 1/2 way up. All in all, I thought the route was great, although next time I will probably approach from the Cruise gully and have a ride arranged on the South rim. The rappels just take too long, and the first couple are in the dirt, impossible to keep crap from flying and the only people who would hear your screams of "ROCK" are the tourons at the rim.

Definitely a do again route in my book.....

Bob,
I did this route with Jim Donini last year. He's the same age (within a day) as Mick Jagger, 62. In fact, a lot of people think of Mick Jagger as the Jim Donini of Rock 'n' Roll! I was only 44 at the time, which brought our team average to 106/2=53.
We fixed a few quarts of water at strategic locations on the way down. Recommended!

Does anyone know if the Black is closed right now, send me a message, and if you have to ranger stations number that would be great. I'm lookin' at climbing Astrodog.

Was Matt Samet climbing the same route I was? I've climbed a fair amount in the Black and think Astro Dog is one of the best. Harder cruxes than the Scenic Cruise but not quite as steep overall- you burn about the same number of calories. The raps are straight forward. It's on the south rim but doesn't go into the shade until mid-day.

Just noticed the missive from Tom Englebach about our climb on Astro Dog. Tom, thanks for flattering me with the comments about Mick Jagger. But, the truth be known, those harsh alpine bivouacs have taken there toll, it might be better to compare me with Keith Richards.

Did A-Dog last weekend - a fine adventure. If it's warm, be sure to take advantage of the H2O stash possibilities at the top of P8, P6 and P3! Raps are pretty straight forward with only the 4th rap to the top of P8 requiring some sideways trickery. A new long sling and some clean up on the large flake rap station just above the 2 boulder bivy ledge would be nice. A #4 Camalot is worth its weight for a couple of pitches. The last two pitches are degrading, but make the cold beer at the top taste that much better!