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I hope that a little beta won't reduce anyone's interest in this excellent, steep line. Alan's description is on target, however, if you are not gifted with his super-powerful, high-efficiency climbing prowers there is a sweet little trick that dusts the reach to the roof jugs. Just below the jug at the lip of the roof is a small crimp that buys exactly enough temporary purchase to pop for the jug with your feet a bit higher.

Can't you just bump through the flake with your left hand to avoid this dyno that everyone is speaking of?

Regardless, if anyone has any solid beta on the crux that follows, I would love to hear it, thanks.

Dikins

AC: I would say so. The little temp edge is just another way to bump out to the lip. Passing the lip is indeed the crux, and a bit intimidating. Your target is obviously the jam crack over the roof. What is key and in-obvious is that there is a little, shallow pocket on the left wall about two feet above the lip, this is a bit of a reach and you start to loos the feet. The little pocket can be used to set the jam off the right hand. The rest is a bit tweaker, but largely clear cut.

As far as beta is concerned, I feel that the hardest way to do the crux is to immediately jam both hands into the crack, and then move up. Lately, I've been palming a sloper with my right hand, a foot or so right of the ledge jug. Get your feet up, move the left hand into the jam, and cross up through with your right hand to the upper jug. To me, this makes the crux feel just slightly harder than the rest of the route.

Quinn's got it right. A left jam works best. Jamming both hands seemed to throw me off balance a bit.

I found that if you go from the jug to the crack with your left, the sloper on the right lets you go with the left to the jug up to the left

These comments are longer than the route itself. No dyno necessary. No more beta is necessary. The route is soft at 11c and more like 11a.

Because you're so good, right Willie?

Why don't you stop being the database-policeman and let people post routes and beta as they see fit.

Willie such insight with your comments.

To the Anonymous Cowards of 9/10. The first of you is a hypocrite and a coward, to diss me for my comment. To the second coward, .. read "short and soft for 11c". That is insight not yet posted. What have you added?

Furthermore, shut up or sign your names.

Regarding comments on routes: I find the verification of the grade to be one of the most important elements that one can comment on. I found this route easy for the grade. Sharing this opinion does not merit a personal attack from cowards who don't even own up to their own comments.

It is also my opinion that approach and safety (pro) beta is warranted, but so much beta on the moves of a 10 foot route is excessive. Leave something to the imagination. Solving the puzzle is half the fun.

I am confused willie?!! You don't want too much beta on the route, but you think someone should redpoint it before they put it on this site so that they can give the most accurate and complete beta? What exactly is your criteria for posting of routes and comments on routes for this web-site? You seem to contradict yourself in what you want out of this web-site. Maybe you should stop visiting CB.

You are confused. I never called for more beta on moves. Please don't discredit me with your fabrications.

Beta regarding safety (loose blocks, poor pro, devious decents, absent anchors,...) or historical info is warranted, useful, and should be shared.

Willie's own words,

"Perhaps you should redpoint routes before writing them up. Your contribution is appreciated, but greater insight may be gained by actually doing the route first."

"...but I believe one should take the time to solve the puzzle before describing it. "

"In my own experience, the discovery of the secret or critical element on a climb has enabled the redpoint, where my prior understand of the route had failed me"

So you have to redpoint a route before giving historical data, approach data, etc.?

Have I made fabrications? I think that you have called for more beta on routes. Not just the other info you mentioned in response to my other AC comment.

The only words Willie wants to hear or listen to are his own. Sounds like they are only right if they are spoken or written by the big man himself!

Know-it-all beta spay regarding the moves is information overkill. Other beta, including grade verification, is useful. I'm sorry to burst your bubble by suggesting that this route was not 11c.

Now that you have mustered the courage to sign your initials, dig deep inside to find the strength and integrity to actually sign your name to your comments. Try it. It might actually improve your climbing.

I apologize to all for introducing the negativity into this thread. My first comment was an off handed remark that led to even more ridiculous dialogue and an attack from the Anonymous Coward. Like gambling, it is hard to quit when you are losing. I recognize that I should not criticize one's contribution to this site, and I'll try to be more thoughtful in the future. If you really care to discuss this further AC, send me an email.

Hey Smithers, nice photo of the route! However the move "should" be static, but I mean who really cares?

Hey thanks a lot you anonymous coward, I was worried no one would notice it in the midst of all the arguing going on. I love the climb a lot, I only wish it were four or five moves more of roof. Great climb-but it won't be long before it gets too cold out there so get out there and tear it up.

This is a really fun climb, well protected, very overhung but with good holds. I would say that 11c does seem a bit inflated, but to a shorter person or someone who doesn't favor this type of climbing it may be right on. Don't worry too much about the dyno, it is a big lunge for a really good jug, and adds to the excitement. If you're cruising all the 10's at High Wire Crag (left) walk on over and do this. You won't be disappointed.

....Easier for guys, harder for girls.

Really fun. Heel hook to avoid dyno for the lip.

There's no way this is 11c. If you can competently climb 10s in Clear Creek, you should get this no problem. If you want to see your friends onsight it, just tell em it's 10b, watch how easy it looks. If you want a real 11c, go get on Hanging Judge.