Turnkorner 

Darn it George!...didn't you see my final note at the bottom?? I didn't want to give away the face climbing trick to the second roof-half the fun (for me at least) was figuring it out with a the "hint" a friend of mine gave me. But, I guess this site IS all about beta, and I've never been an exception to that. Anyway since you mention it, I'll second the thought that the face climbing is very scary. The holds are quite friable, and a fall would swing you violently back and down into the corner. Recommend pushing your large camming unit up higher than I did before doing these moves.

Doing the second roof this way makes the first roof the crux IMHO. There is a third roof but by that time you are in the flared chimney so I guess it doesn't really seem like a roof because it lies just to the right.

Even with the trick, it seemed like a lot of OW to me, but I don't do OW very often so that's probably why. Also, I did a lot of OW even on the long 5.9 crack above the roofs, because it is so flared that you can do a lot of arm-bars etc. There is probably a better way to climb that section!

I don't remember as much offwidthing as Charles indicates. The section on the 4th pitch is pretty short, and there is a bolt there. On the 5th pitch (I remember only 2 roofs?), it is possible to face climb around the OW crux(?) on the right. This is not indicated on Rossiter's topo. Basically, right at the roof, reach right for some small face holds. Pull right, then climb more of less straight up the face for 15 to 20 ft to rejoin the crack. This avoids much OWing, HOWEVER it is also 5.10 and completely unprotected, until the end when you can reach back left into the crack and place a big cam. Then, all that is left is the long 5.9 big hands/fist crack!

Just bring some cams and go for it. I would say that if you want to climb this route and your hopeing you can skirt around some of the off width sections, you'd probably be better off skipping it all together. The only reason to climb the route is because the cracks are long, wide, and intimidating and you happen to think your man enough to do it (most people aren't.)

Uh, I have a friend who has sent some pretty heinous OWs, e.g. onsighted Twilight Zone (10+?) in Yosemite, just sent Big Baby at Indian Creek (rated 5.11d+ in guidebook), has climbed Crack of Fear at least a dozen times, Obelisk (5.11 OW on Diamond), Peaches and Cream etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

He fell 3 or 4 times (on a separate ascent from mine) trying to clear the 2nd roof with full on OW, until he found the face-climbing "trick". He was pretty happy to find it. Hell, it's one of the things that gives the route its character. There's plenty of other OW/chimney, etc. for the "real man". Personally, I was very happy to do the route, even though I didn't get it totally clean and skirted one section--I certainly wouldn't rather have skipped the route. If that means that I (or my friend, or Royal Robbins, etc. etc.) am not "man enough", then so be it. At least I'm not an anonymous coward...

Well maybe I'll be speaking differently early next week (planning to climb this route on Sunday).

Keep seeing a lot about climbing around the offwidth with 10a face. I notice the Rossiter guide mentions 10a on right wall .i.e. face). Gillett's guide (and beta from a friend) says the offwidth isn't that bad. Certainly can't image it could be close to as hard as Big Baby (which I have looked at, but not tried).

Ok just one more quick one (hmm it would be nice to be able to go back and edit/combine comments). Like I said, I'm hoping to go through OW style (mostly because I prefer being smashed into some horrible offwidth to balancing up a scary face). Hoping to have some pictures to post, I have been wanting to climb this route ever since I saw it. Hopefully something other than a pic of me falling off of the scary face after bailing out of the offwidth method, hehe.

Wasn't trying to downplay an ascent skirting the 1 OW section. The essence of the route is a long "hard man" crack route. People not familiar with the area should know that just because you can avoid one section doesn't take away from the fact that there is tons of hard wide crack climbing above. I'm an avid crack climber and may have started up somewhat blinded by enthusiasm but I didn't know the half of what I was getting into when I started up Turnkorner. It was an awesome route and I worked for every inch of it. I remember feeling almost inverted on one of the OW roof sections trying to pull thru. I think it's kinda cool to have routes that we're proud we've done. The fact is most people will not do Turnkorner, nor want to, I think the peole who do it by any version are cool. Peace

I doubt it is as hard as Big Baby! My friend didn't on-sight Big Baby either, but just sending that route at all is pretty impressive IMO. He has however on-sighted into the .11 range with OW, so I suspect the roof on TK is pretty hard--sure seemed that way to me when I was underneath it! You're OWing up into this big roof with no bottom. The pro is excellent (particularly w/ #5 Camalot), so it is certainly worth trying. Whichever way you do it, the position is incredible...let us know how your attempt goes.

We did it! Very happy to say that we got through the offwidth. Was postponed one week but we got there yesterday. Looking up from the base, I was happy to see it looking as imposing as always.

Joseffa led the first pitches (did as 2, up to under the first fist roof/dihedral, w/the bird crap on slab). Definitely agree the rock quality on those was pretty scary!

I led next 2, and found the 3rd pitch (first OW) much different than expected, with more layback and use of face holds. Fell once on it backcleaning a piece from a rest. Hold that I was using for left food just broke. Unexpected but small fall. Found the OW on the 3rd pitch not bad and quite enjoyable, with just a couple of chimney-type moves there.

This brought us to the big roof. Off the belay through the first small step was great! Loved the cool move there. We brought a #4.5 and 5 Camalot. The 4.5 is definite luxury, but I'm certainly not complaining about having it.

Got up into the main roof, faced wrong way (I usually put my back to the "good" wall) but then realized there were holds I would need in a few feet, so climbed back down and turned. Got into it, even managed a weird/bad fist way deep in (good for holding position too deep to move up on). Through feet sidewise under me and went for the wallow/grunt. Got to the part where I could squeeze/mantle through (edge of roof) and realized I was stuck! Gear on me would not let me move up and felt like I was being pulled down. Tried to throw hips out farther, but it didn't work and I fell out (more of a slide really, good thing we brought the #5 Camalot).

Hanging just out from the bottom of the crux, got back down to rest and tried it again. Better gear positioning and a lot of grunt / squeezing got me through it. The #4 cam I managed to throw in and shove up quickly after finishing the crux helped with the extra confidence (falling off the roof edge and down into the thing didn't seem like a good idea). Rested a while after finishing the crux. Found the 5.9 flare/crack above tiring, especially after pulling that roof. Jo had the same problem (stuck) first time but cruised right on through after that.

It was a beautiful day and I am very glad that we finally got to do this amazing climb.

Pictures coming soon (here) and hopefully a trip report w/pictures on my web site. Will post as soon as I can.

If one is creative there are ample opportunities to find supplementary cracks for gear - I used a #1 TCU, and a #2&3 Camalot as my primary pieces on the initial part of the 4th pitch! I lead the entire route when I was sixteen, and I was totally fine with a set of cams (up to a #4 Camalot) and a set of stoppers.

Well, you don't even have to be that creative. The only pitch where you really NEED big gear is the one through the big roof, and there most will want doubles. However if you read my gear list carefully I say, basically, exactly what you just said.

Someone recommended this to me back around 1990 and told me it was all nice moderate finger cracks (thanks Michelle!) I stupidly brought a regular rack up to some kind of hand size only (maybe a couple #3 Friends, and one #4 Friend). Seemed to protect sorta OK anyway. I found (by accident) the devious face climbing to avoid the hardest OW. I can still remember the moves, on huge flexing crusty biscuits. Wild. A great climb, about the best 5.10 Lumpy climb I've done, sustained, exhausting, very memorable. Perhaps, it was better to have expected something easier. . .

I thought the rating was close to acurate, possibly 5.10c. The crux of the route is the gear management. On the first roof (5.10b), place the gear primarly on the right side. One the second 5.10 pitch, you will need to evenly distribute the gear on both sides, since it is advantageous to switch back and forth from left side to right side in. And, if possible, run the pitch on out to the top when the big ledge (5.5 scramble) is, since the semihanging bely is uncomfortable. I recommend this route to any one in the 5.10 lead range, even 5.9+ since the gear is so bommer. The first three pitch have some weirdness to them but are in the 5.9-5.9+ range. Every pitch was excellent. Good Luck!

Did this route this weekend... pretty fun but not sure its 3 stars fun.

Some beta: the route is not sandbagged, but, let me put it this way... you would be very unhappy without a #5 Camalot on this one. Pitch 2 (P3 if you don't link 2 & 3) has lots of loose faceholds that you absolutely have to use... the "turncorner" move on pitch 4 has some pretty sketchy ones as well. The start of the 5.9 chimney/flare is a good warm-up for the Wilson Overhang on the Steck-Salathe (or is it vice-versa)... I had to take my helmet off from a very awkward position to squeeze past this part. The rap route to climber's-right of The Nose can be reached from the ledge after the chimney/flare.

Also, the flare ate my buddy Jon's #1 Camalot... he spent over an hour trying, unsuccessfully, to clean it. Sorry Jon. So, first one there...

This is a fantastic route. The offwidth isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I'm far from being a proficient offwidth climber and I didn't fall or hang once on this pitch. Compared to the 5.10a offwidth pitch on The Rostrum (which I flailed on), this is a walk in the park. The rock is very grippy and textured and many hand/fist jams can be found way back in there. I led this pitch exclusively with Camalots - 1 #4, 1 #3.5, 2 #3s, 2 #2s, 2 #1s + some smaller stuff. I didn't run it out at all with this amount of gear - this thing takes a surprising variety of sizes! In fact, I walked the #4 up maybe 5 feet at the bottom expecting to be short on wide stuff, but towards the top I placed the #3.5 just to get rid of it. When I do this climb again, I would break it up as follows:

P1 - Climb the first two short 5.9 pitches as one pitch. P2 - Combine the next short 5.9 pitch with the short 5.9 offwidth. P3 - Do the 5.10a offwidth as a single lead. It feels like a long pitch. P4 - Simul-climb the 5.4-5.6 stuff to the top. It is probably 250'.

Reclimbed this route today, doing the Under the Big Top variation. Part of the main flake in the crux bypass had recently broken off. After cleaning up the debris, a pretty good edge was revealed. This edge makes this passage mentally, if not technically, easier.

This is one fine, fine route.

We did this very conveniently in three, 70m pitches: P1: climb the two 5.9 pitches to nests of slings on the blocky ledge. P2: climb up to the start of the roofs, climb all of the roofs, belay at the end of the 5.9 flaring section. P3: easy climbing to the summit w/ 20' of simulclimbing. There was no rope drag and I'd definitely do it this way again.

You can leave behind small cams on this climb, but I'd bring a full set of stoppers. Our gear was perfect: stoppers, single Camalots from 0.5 to 4.5 (including a 3.5 and a 4), double 1s, 2s, and 3s.

Dang this climb is good.

Went up and did this route last weekend - memorable indeed!

I'm a few months short of 50, and I've looked at this route for probably 25 years. Back in the day, I was always too intimidated - the idea of going up there with nothing but a set of tube chocks *still* seems awfully scary. But with modern gear (i.e. big cams), the whole thing was really quite reasonable.

The most surprising thing to me was the minimal amount of actual off-widthing needed. Yes, there is a lot of off-width-sized crack to climb; but I don't think I actually arm barred more than one or two moves on the whole thing. Lots of chimneying, lots of heel-toe, lots of face holds on the side walls, lots of hand jams deep in the crack... but very little actual offwidth climbing.

The initial pitches up to the bird-shit belay seemed like the crux to me, with funky pro and somewhat suspect rock (although not as bad as some of the descriptions made it out to be). I ran the two crux pitches together (4 and 5), and was surprised how easily it went.

While a couple of big cams are needed, what really helps is a lot of medium-sized stuff - I could have used several #1 Camalots. There's a lot of inobvious protection available - even at the crux where you "turn the corner," you could actually get a stopper and/or small cams in and only lose maybe five feet off what you get with the huge cam.

My only added advice is, save some of your bigger stuff for the belays. The bird-shit belay takes a #0.5, #2 and #3 Camalot. The belay at the top of the hard climbing (top of pitch 5) needs some medium sized cams; I'd used up pretty much *everything* at that point and was stretching the rope, so I had to belay off some funky small pieces and wedge my butt way down in the slot for security.

Oh yeah, and - rack everything on a gear sling so you can switch shoulders (twice!) during the crux sections.

A really beautiful, high quality route, and not anything like the wide-crack horror its reputation suggests. I wish I'd done it years ago!

The bolt at the top of the third pitch next to the bird poo could stand to be replaced. So could the others; however, I don't really see them as necessary, and a fatty at the bird shit area would be nice.

This is the best route at Lumpy, and one of my favorite of all time. Don't miss this one.

With a 60m, we climbed it as follows: combined P1 & P2-full 60m pitch; did P3 to bird crap belay just below first 10a bulge 30m pitch; combined P4 and P5 full 60m pitch, then one last 5.5 pitch to rap slings. Two double rope raps puts you on the decent trail. Very exciting route-I will echo the sentiment that P1 through P3 is spooky. As for the OW sections, there are some good rests, I found the crux of the route to be enduring the flared 5.9 chimney after having pulled the strenuous 10a bulges-I thought it would never end. We followed Josh Janes's rack recommendation, and it was perfect-no more and no less. Very good route.

Beautiful route. The flaring chimney alone would be the crux of many a 5.9 in the area. There is really no need for the bolts with today’s gear. I give it a 5.10b, but I usually don't climb trad route this hard.

A strikingly direct line up Sundance, the short length of the climb belies its strenuous nature. I should think that a #5 is obligatory for the 2nd OW pitch (which I felt to be harder than the tech 'crux' after the bird poo belay).

Agreeing with Tishmack, this the BEST route at Lumpy. It is well-protected through all the hard climbing. Don't pass this one or any other route on Sundance up. Make sure to use that big Cam, whatever size it may be, IN the second roof....