Crynoid Corner 

The photo of the climber makes it seem like that corner would be a perfectly and legit trad lead.... if so, it's a shame it's bolted, despite being a good beginner lead.

I agree. The climb could easily be climbed trad. It seemed that the placements would have been very straightforward. This is one of those climbs that you go Huuummmm wonder why this happened? Maybe just for convenience since very few people go to shelf to trad climb.

Just because the bolts are there is it no longer possible to trad lead it? You could bring a rack down and lead at least six routes under 5.10b at Shelf that I can think of off the top of my head. Check out Castrator and Barney on Freeform Wall. There is Bat (shit) crack at the Menses Prow area, and another open book corner on the other side of CA Ethics pinnacle there. Add this one and then a good warmup 9+ thing we did at the Bank last time and that's a pretty full day. Have at it.

The more I think about it, since I'm such a weenie, it seems like forcing myself to trad lead around good solid bolts might not be bad for my Mind Control.

Whatcha think? Anyone want to hump a trad rack to Shelf in the near future?

Yes, that climb to the right of CEP is called First Blood and is a super climb. I have never tried it trad. Add Sticks and Stones... on Cactus Rose Wall to your list. I swear you will see it and HAVE to climb it. I guess with some of these cracks being bolted if you ever get in trouble leading it trad you could always just clip a bolt and keep from getting hurt. Might be a good way for some climbers to break into trad climbing with out so much risk.

Bolting cracks at a sport area is a good way for people to break into trad climbing!? I don't think I want the kind of people who are willing to bolt cracks, because they can't lead them on gear, running loose in trad areas. What's so hard about rigging a top rope while trailing a rope and placing gear to simulate a lead. I'd say that would be a good way to break into trad. I know my climbing pals may feel differently but I still have a hard time swallowing the justification for bolting cracks just because a place is primarily a sport area. I guess I'm off beating the drum for a more global ethic rather than local ethics when it comes to sesitive issues. I just would like to see bolting of cracks stopped. I'm sure it's a still a very fun lead, either way.

I also feel that bolting cracks is unjustifiable and not in the spirit of climbing. The excuse that the route is on a 'sport crag' is a pitiful one. Are these climbers so lazy that they can't carry a rack of gear on a 10 minute approach? As more and more bolted routes are squeezed in between the natural routes the crags get designated as 'sport crags' thereby rationalizing more and more bolts. Why does somebody with a drill get to designate a crag as a 'sport crag' anyway?

In the recent American Alpine Journal you can read about how the practice of bolting cracks has been brought to Patagonia. In order to stop the lowering of standards in places that represent the state of the art we need to stop lowering the standards at our home crags.

One point: I've climbed at the City of Rocks in Idaho a handful of times, but until last summer (2001) I hadn't been there in a while. Last time I was there (early 90's) I remember these two bolted splitter cracks near the Parking Lot Rock area. Locker placements in bomber granite yet bolted nevetheless.

I came back and re-did one of the routes this summer and lo and behold, someone had yanked the bolts and patched the holes.

Seems like they thought better of themselves, doesn't it? I got way more value out of leading this route on gear.

So what if people want to do it sport. True, the route is perfect for TRAD....if ya wanna lead it trad than forget about the bolts and use your rack. but dont pull out the bolts. just ignore them.

I may be opening a can of worms here...but here goes. I know people occasionally trad climb at Shelf but isn't that limestone not the best rock? How do you know if there isn't an air pocket right behind that seemingly solid cam placement? I've heard leading on gear at Shelf appears solid but actually is not. Oh well, what do I know?

I think everyone is right in their own sense here. Bolting a crack doesnt seem the most logical thing to do. However, there was a time when i didnt have much of a rack other than my draws, probobly the same with all of us. I did this route a few weeks ago. Its a great route, trad or bolted. it doesnt matter much. Those of us feel more comfortable on bolted routes (me) can use the bolts. Those of us who enjoy the thrill of trad climbing (me the other 50% of the time) can simply ignore the bolts and work on placing pro. But it isnt wise to take the bolts out. Regardless of wether or not it was smart, whoever bolted worked to do it, and theres no reason why his/her work should go to waste.

I thought this was an excellent climb. One of the better moderate routes in the area.

To whomever painted the warning at the start of Crynoid Corner about the large dangerously loose boulder on the route: "Thank you!!". The location and condition of that boulder was indeed eminently life threatening. To all others reading this: as of today that boulder has been removed. So, you may now disregard the warning at the base of this route, concerning that particular block. However, in the future other blocks on this route (as well as most other routes) will become dangerously loose. Some will be large. Get in the habit of testing all blocks and flakes with a tap to check for hollowness, followed by gentle pressure before trusting them. Any person who would have just reached up and yarded out on this particular block today would have died and killed their belayer in the process.

Limestone undergoes a process called "case hardening" . Limestone (Calcium Carbonate) dissolves in slightly acidic groundwater (caused by dead material). This erosion is what causes pockets. It also creates a hard wall on the outside of the rock, leaving softer rock within. Imagine salt migrating to the outside of your favorite ball cap when you are sweating away. When it dries it leaves a crust, just like certain limestones, especially the ones with sandstone like properties (sandstone is porous). I think that is the argument behind not using trad gear at Shelf. The rock feels strong, but it is basically brittle. A nut placement or cam could litterally explode the rock it is placed in.

Fun climb. Too bad it's a shamelessly bolted trad climb. Be careful pulling your rope.

Very nice route. I don't think this would be a safe trad lead for a climber at her limit. See The Dude's comment above. I could plug my cams into the crack, but I sure wouldn't want to fall on them.

Be really careful pulling your rope on this one... the crack eats 'em. Climb is fun enough I didn't mind leading it a second time to retrieve a rope.