Palm Pilot 

Congrats on the send Jimmy. It's too bad about the chipped jug but when it falls off, there will be an even harder route. Until then, it's an impressive line all the same.

Who equipped this route and when? 13d hmmm, will probably need a couple ascents to confirm this -- good job.

In Rossiter's guide it states that Mark Rolofson and John Baldwin equiped the route. When working on this route I brought both Robyn Erbesfield and Mike Downing to the route and both got on the route and agreed .13d. I believe Peter Beal has also been on this route and thought it was hard. I agree we do need some ascents of this route to confirm the grade. I would be totally psyched If people tried/ did the route. I think all routes need a confirmation of grade.

I have been on this route and it seemed pretty hard. Unless more holds were improved after I was on it, I doubt it will be seriously downgraded. I remember the move off the jug as being particularly tough, to the point that I checked out the arete going straight up. I quikcly lost interest due to the modified hold.

I think ultimately, when the jug goes (it's glued on-reattached- and chipped in pretty deep) that going directly up the arete will provide a pretty solid 5.14 route. Time will tell.

It seems to me that ONLY a solid 5.14 climber should comment on whether the route will stand at 13d. One tends to overgrade when grading at the top limit of his/her redpoint level, because of having limited experience in this realm.

--Rob Smale

Rob, I have plenty of experience on 13+ and 14 routes. Most of my FAs have maintained their grades, all of which you are free to check out to see what I can climb. I think I'm as qualified as anyone to judge Jim's route. I stand by my original belief that the grade will stand. If another consensus emerges, fine, nobody's perfect.

Concerning the "solid 5.14 climber", I can cite several individuals including Dave Graham, Fred Nicole, Axel Franco, etc. who have rated new routes and seen them downgraded. It's all part of the game. Amazingly life goes on.

Peter, thanks for the support. Also just to let you know, there are no new holds on this route since you have been on it. As far as the grading goes. It's not like I just climbed a few 5.12+ routes in my life and did a route and called it 5.13d. I've done quite a few 5.13c's and this felt harder to me. I trained very hard to do this route and got some qualified input from others who have been on it. That's got to be good for something.

Rob Smale, If Jimmy Redo says the route felt like .13d there is a good chance it is.

Saying that only a solid .14 climber should be grading a route thats .13d a load of crap! So, by that logic, a solid 12 climber should not rate a 11d.....or a solid 5.11 climber shouldn't dare rate a route 5.10d.

Nice send Jimmy!

First of all, there are not any solid 5.14 climbers. At least in the tradition I was 'raised'. To be solid, you wouldn't be falling off of them, right?

Since it makes the news when anybody on-sights a 5.14a (maybe 10 people, ever?) and nobody's on-sighted 14b yet, to the best of my knowledge, then there are not *any* people solid at that grade.

Until there are, can we not have any 13d's?

Hmmm... I've on-sighted a lot of 11s, but I'm only 'solid' up to maybe 10d. But funny as it seems, I still seem to know a 12a when I am on one.

Having climbed a few of Jimmy's easier routes (.12b,.12c, etc), I would say that he does not give soft ratings, period.

I agree with Greaser's comment. Has anyone else been on The Lorax? Holy Smokes!

The facts: Jimmy's route probably is 13+ .

The aging climber from New England (Pete Beal) does have high-end redpoint experience replete with the much-loved prerequisite elite-climber attitude.

However, the route is chipped, 'nuf said!

You might add the fact that people who make comments about others without identifying themselves probably shouldn't comment on attitude.

AC's impotent comment registered at minus ten on the richter scale. Perhaps, as in dealing with so many problems of childhood, it's best just to ignore them. Or to paraphrase Val Kilmer, having turned his back to another impotent AC, "AC? Are you still here? You may go now."