Alice in Bucketland 

The second roof on this climb is a little hairy; stiff for the grade without reliable protection.

It really is a "bucketland"! Go see for yourself!

This route is stout for the grade. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who can't lead 5.10 in Eldo. There is good gear at the crux second roof. Bring very small cams in addition to some 2-4 in. pieces.

The gear is good and frequent enough to be "safe" but not frequent enough to prevent a long fall. The second roof probably could produce a frightening result, as could the first pitch, but I don't think people would be SERIOUSLY injured if they place the available protection.

2 sets of 1.5" to 3.5" cams would help in the first pitch.

I agree that a 5.8 leader should not be on it, but if you feel good on 5.8 and are mentally solid, I don't think 5.10 ability is prerequisite.

Just did this route again a couple days ago. My partner and I have decided that this is potentially the best route of it's grade anywhere. Anyone disagree?

Better than the Durrance route on the Grand? Or, better than the Standard Route on Cima Grande at Cinque Torre?

Are those .8 "+"? I wasn't sure. I'm sure you're right though Richard. How about in Eldo...

No, Richard isn't right. Because the Cima Grande isn't at Cinque Torre! It is at the Tre Cime de Laverado. At least the famous Cima Grande of the "Six Great North Faces of the Alps" fame.

Perhaps the Cinque Torre also has a Cima Grande...

Just a quick comment on the wasp situation at the first belay. It seems that about a million wasps make their home behind the flake that contains the two pin anchor. Unless you are accustomed to having wasps crawling all over you while belaying, I'd recommend avioding this route until it gets cold again. I suppose one could combine the first two pitches, but I'm not sure where a decent belay could be had over the second roof. I had to downclimb the pitch to above the first roof and then climb over to Ruper.

You don't have to run it out above the first roof to avoid rope drag. I used a double length sling before swinging right around the first roof. Getting situated after the roof is a little scary, but you can place a good #3/blue Camalot at the "rail". You can clip this short, and the rope will run fine, assuming you didn't place gear until you got to the roof. This was the first time I've done the route, and I had a hard time staying calm. There's enough gear, maybe every 10 feet or so, but much of it is not inspiring.

I followed the second pitch and, looking for an easier way, swung right around the roof onto a sloping ledge (similar to the pitch 1 move). Don't do this! It's hard, and there are no good handholds after you swing right. Then it's really hard moving left to get back on the normal line.

P1. There is a little edge/flake on the lip of the roof that can catch & provide ample rope drag. Look down & check the rope after you clear the roof. Also, a #3 Camalot piece is near-essential just after clearing the roof to avoid ground fall potential. There are two pins at the belay anchor. P2 has 2 pins in the L-facing dihedral near its top. You can belay at the 1st of the pins. Descent: Just L by perhaps 100 feet or so is the rap down Chockstone Chimney (1x30m). This leaves you at the top of the descent line L of Vertigo or at the top of the ramp you can descend to the Naked Edge raps (3x25m).

There's an easier variation to the second pitch. Instead of going right and pulling the 5.8+ roof with tricky protection, you can go left from the hanging belay and wander up mostly 5.7 terrain with reasonable protection (a bit run-out but regularly spaced pro) and solid lichen-covered rock. I've done it both ways and actually find the left variation just as enjoyable because of the route-finding and the consistent difficulty.

The [variation] Ivan [mentions above] is called Phallus in Suck-It-Land and is a Rossiter climb. Furthermore, you can duck out left and diagonal up and left at a angle 35 degrees from straight up (in a line contiguous with Pitch 1) and arrive at the single bolt belay of Upper Grand Giraffe. I did this in 1996 (Bubb/Thompson or Bubb/Peters) and again [yesterday]. I called this Talus in Duck-It-Land at the time due to a large rock that popped off. It is mostly easy climbing as well and from either left-hand [variation] of 'Alice' you can reach to top of the wall in about 60M even.

Great route, one of the best at its grade in Eldo.

It is a little powerful here and there, and the only devious move is the second roof, which can be skipped to [the] left as mentioned if you feel marginal on this route "Tallus In Duck-It-Land" is the easiest [variation].

The cord on the [belay] under the second roof (the first belay) is realy terrible as of 4/20/03. [I replaced the belay slings on 9/25/04, they are presently bomber, but on two old, yet decent pins. The old cord can now be cut, but was not because it was entertwined into my belay when I replaced it- not so simple to do at the time. Although I would not hesitate at present to rap off of the new set-up, it would still be advisable to back the thing up if you are belaying on it, due to the probable direction of force in the event of a fall from the crux.] The [old] cord [was] expertly placed to be redundant due to the knot and should be closely replicated.

Just a quick comment about the descent beta givin above. You are practicaly at the top of the east slab descent. Just walk off!! If is much safer then all the rapping!!

Dale - The East Slabs descent is not a walk-off. It's a long down-climb. Many would argue that it's not safer than rapping. I've done it both ways and prefer to use the Chockstone Chimney and Vertigo raps. I know of at least one person to die on the east slabs descent after getting caught in the rain.

What a route! Both roof sequences rock.

As of the middle of October, there were still a ton of bees at the belay station under the second roof.

This is in response to tonys comment above. Last I checked (5/ 04) both pins in this anchor were pretty shady and the left one could be removed by hand. I would have taken it, but it was tied into the anchor with a tattered old cord and I didnt have my knife. The best belay is above the second roof on a ledge over a short obtuse dihederal. Great route, have fun.

OK, but as of June 26, the pins were OK. I'd suspect that the left pin loose was caused by a crux fall- which would pull the left pin out torqued to the right. Someone musta hammered it back in. Nonetheless, maybe I'll put a nice long angle in up & to the right of the existing two to make it bomber next time I am up there. Is there a community consensus on that? Seems like a reasonable thing, to replace an old placement if people feel that the historical belay is poor. Then again, you can back it up on gear, so people nervous can also just leave a stopper and sling too.

Second time on this baby, and folks it doesn't get much better, steep, juggy and nothing but fun.A little bit of a hair raiser pulling the roof, but it all goes and wow, have fun.......

This climb is not to be missed! Steep rock, dramatic setting, esthetic climbing and exciting cruxes. From the first belay, it's one long 60 meter pitch to the top, using all but about ten feet of the rope.

Quite an excellent route! Even better than Ruper. The two pin belay can be easily supplemented with gear in a much better crack just above and to the right. The pins are driven behind a block that is funky looking, in that it has fissures and cracks all the way through it. Definitely use gear in the crack, too. While you are here, you can pose the question to your partner, "Suck it or bucket?"

Excellent route. Agreed, stiff for the grade and the "s" rating is legit. Pro placement requires some creativity. There is good gear just below each crux, but a fall after each roof will send you for a whip. Dont let the rope get caught under the left leg. Backup the hanging belay with gear as described. T Nydam

Indeed, the 'S' rating is correct while pulling the roofs/corners on both pitches. Both roofs are committing, falling is not an option as a fall would be nasty. The grade felt right to me, just a bit scary.

The wasps are back at the P1 belay. It was easy enough to redirect the hanging belay to the right with a couple small cams. They didn't seem aggressive.

Did this route with Danny I. as a Rosy linkup we're dubbing "Rosy Alice". Alice is the perfect 5.8 route for one who is a comfortable 5.10 leader in Eldo. The moves pulling the roofs on both pitches were blind and committing and there was fairly regular 20-30 ft run out sections. The route was easily done to the top of the saddle in two pitches with good runners.

Note: The bees/wasps were in full effect as 10/7 at the 1st belay.

There are no wasps on the route as of today.

Gear beta: there are two great yellow Alien placements just before the crux 2nd pitch roof.

As of 2/24/2008 there is only one pin at the belay.

Still no wasps, just damn awesome climbing.

No bees as of 4/28/08. Only one pin at first belay. Other gear options definitely exist for the anchor. Good natural anchor is not a problem. Me and my partner (about 400lbs +) enjoyed a hanging belay off of the pin, a #0.5 Camalot (a #0.75 Camalot may work as well) and a finger size nut, each piece in a separate rock feature, nicely equalized. Excellent route!

This might be the best route at its grade I've done in Eldo; definitely not a route to push your limits. There is one pin at the end of the first pitch, but it's not necessary to use it to construct a solid belay anchor.

If one had those two roofs dialed, 5.8+ might seem right, but onsite I'm willing to say those roofs are niners. The commitment factor of those moves, and the continuous steepness elsewhere, make this a remarkable route. Doubling up on 1" and 2" would really help on P1, and plenty of small stuff for P2.

Buzz,

I think you've been climbing in the gym too much. This route is no more difficult that 5.8, even by today's standards. Maybe you are making the entry move from the roof onto the face above in a difficult place but grading this climb 5.9 is way off.

I first did this route as a free-solo in 1986 and considered it default 5.8 (as there was no 5.9 on it). I did it again last week and have to stand by that assessment. While it's a bit scary at the second roof, my opinion of the technical difficulty stands. Tri-cams have worked well when I've led it, but still runout for the grade. Psych factor not withstanding, an excellent route.

Interesting discussion on the best 5.8. Alice might be up there. Sounds like the makings of a fun thread. Via Mirriam (Standard Route) on the Cinque Cima Grande is pretty sweet, RW. Pingora, Pear Buttress, and Bonne Homme Variation might make my list too.