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Clipping in at anchors

Original Post
KZing · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 0

Hi all,

I'll be following on trad for the first time this weekend, learning as much as I can. I've been reading a ton up to this point, and I have a couple questions in regards to my actions at the anchors.

I've read conflicting things regarding the clip-in of a second at a cordelette belay. Here's a picture:



I've read that I should clip in to the shelf of the knot (which I assume is where I drew the red arrow) -- in between the strands that run to each piece. I've also read that one can belay their second from here. This seems wrong to me due to the risk of a piece blowing, and no redundancy.

So, that leads me to believe that it's safer to clip in/belay between an individual set of strands leading to a single piece (green arrow). But then that seems wrong because more weight is being placed on an individual piece. Then again, people belay off the anchor so my point may be moot.

The thing that makes the most sense would be the second clipping into the master point, but then that just seems like a crowding/clusterf*ck scenario.

I know I'm probably too much up in my head about this, and I know that I'll hear what to do this weekend. But I also want that prior knowledge heading into it, so my questions are:

With a Cordelette:
-Where do you, as a leader belay from? Harness? Anchor? Secondary knot? Shelf of the knot?
- Where do you, as a second, clip in when you come to the anchor?

With a rope tie-in:
-Odds are you're swinging leads, so the second is just clipping in to get the rest of the rack and keep climbing, yeah?

Thanks for the time, I'll take my lumps for noobism, too.
Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425

Just make sure to run your locker through a few of the shelf strands. It's legit and a common practice, both shown by Long and Luebben's books. There was a thread within the past month or so about that here.

If you do a quick seach the other thread has the book exerpts that show a little clearer what the shelf IS, which I think is part of your question. The green arrows ARE your shelf, the red is just your figure 8 / master point.

And sure the 2nd can clip into either the master or the shelf..no difference, but you'll still want a biner on your master point to "lock out the knot". And every anchor is different...how is it loaded, are you hanging off it? If I'm hanging, I'll clip into the master and the second to the shelf. If I belay direct, then I'll clip into the shelf, and always keep it loaded in the correct direction. I might do all the things you listed on a single climb, it depends on the gear, how I'm sitting or where, is it bomber or sketch, rope management etc.

Oh and you may want to shore up your master point a bit.

John Maguire · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 195

I think Sliding X's are more convenient for trad...

If you are confused on those, let me know and I will post a few pictures to how I set it up at an anchor.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

Clip the master point. This is best.

In your photo the master point is huge. You could clip ten biners to it. No reason to use the shelf at all.

Clip the shelf only when there is no room in the master points. If so, clip the shelf properly. Clip one strand of the cord running to each piece. You will clip three strands in a three piece anchor, four strands in a four piece anchor.

The leader should belay directly of the master point when using an auto block device in most cases. The anchor most be solid.
The leader may redirect the rope through the master point when belaying of their waist. The anchor most be solid.
In some cases a solid anchor is impossible to build. The leader should put themselves in between the anchor and the second and do what ever they can to brace themselves to protect the anchor. This is not a good scenario but it will happen if you climb a lot.

Hope this helps.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Beginning Climbers
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