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GriGri 2 vs. Trango Cinch
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By jaypg
From New England
Jan 6, 2011
Mammoth

Just asking for opinions on which to purchase?

Situation is this: My climbing gym requires use of such devices on the lead wall and I do not want to continue renting one from them. Since I do not know the actual release date (or availability issues caused by mass ordering) of the GG2 should I go with the Cinch, today. The spec's show their weights to be almost identical - which I do care about.


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By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Jan 6, 2011
OMG, I winz!!!

No one is really going to be able to answer this as the grigri2 isn't out yet. The Cinch is fantastic though and I can't see switching for lead belay when the 2 comes out.


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Jan 6, 2011

In the grand scheme of things, the Cinch is going to be better at feeding slack, and the grigri (or grigri2) is going to be better at lowering.

The theory is that the new grigri2 will be better than the grigri at feeding slack (and those that i know who are using it agree), but physics still dictates the cinch is faster and easier. that said, if the grigri2 is a significant improvement over the old grigri at feeding slack...

time will tell. i know there are some grigri2s out there- petzl reps and magazines have them for review. they arrive at the end of next month into the first shops. depends on whether you can wait about two months. i dont know how much mass purchasing of a $100 device is going to happen- most folks who own and use a grigri are pretty happy with it. and most who own a cinch are happy with theirs...as fun as the grigri2 might be, thats alotta dough to lay out for a device that isnt really needed.


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By Evan1984
Jan 6, 2011

John Wilder wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, the Cinch is going to be better at feeding slack, and the grigri (or grigri2) is going to be better at lowering. The theory is that the new grigri2 will be better than the grigri at feeding slack (and those that i know who are using it agree), but physics still dictates the cinch is faster and easier. that said, if the grigri2 is a significant improvement over the old grigri at feeding slack... time will tell. i know there are some grigri2s out there- petzl reps and magazines have them for review. they arrive at the end of next month into the first shops. depends on whether you can wait about two months. i dont know how much mass purchasing of a $100 device is going to happen- most folks who own and use a grigri are pretty happy with it. and most who own a cinch are happy with theirs...as fun as the grigri2 might be, thats alotta dough to lay out for a device that isnt really needed.


This sums it up.


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By Woodchuck ATC
Jan 6, 2011
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Has anyone considered the Click Up? It's much cheaper and a nice easy tool to use. Not as fool proof as the grigri, but still locks off the climber with tension or a fall. I love using mine.


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By daniel c
From San Francisco, CA
Jan 13, 2011

I'm sticking with my Cinch. Still lighter and range of rope diameters is effectively the same for my purposes (ie I'm never going to use a rope thinner than 9.7 or fatter than 10.5). Also, the Cinch is a time tested design using time tested materials. I'll wait for others to guinea pig the Grigri2 before I shell out the money for a new belay assist device.

CINCH
Weight: 182 grams / 6.42 oz
Recommended Rope Diameter: 9.4 - 11mm

GRIGRI2
Weight: 185 grams / 6.53 oz
Recommended Rope Diameter: 8.9 to 11mm


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By Ed Wright
Jan 13, 2011
Magic Ed

Big grigri fan here...I'll be buying a grigri2 as soon as they are available--whatever the cost.


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By RoadTripRyan
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 13, 2011

I'm also a big fan of the GriGri 1.0., but doubt I will buy version 2. My current GriGri works well for me.

Re: Cinch. I hate them. One of my partners used to use one occasionally, and the lowering sucks. She uses my grigri now instead. I am unsure if it is her use of the cinch, or the device in general, but it seems be have a very small sweet spot for lowering. I was dropped quickly a few feet one to many times, when I finally forbade it's use if I was on the other end of the rope...

-Ryan-


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By Mike Pharris
From Longmont, CO
Jan 13, 2011
Climbing above Black Lake

lowering with the cinch was tricky for me until i 'got the hang of it' (a matter of one gym session really) now it's as smooth as with an ATC or a GriGri. Feeding slack with the Cinch - to me - is smoother than with a Gri Gri, but i'm sure that if i spent a bit more time with the Gri Gri that i'd have that dialed as well.

I have a cinch, so i prefer it over the Gri Gri.


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By Gold Plated Rocket Pony
From Boulder, CO
Jan 13, 2011
yep

John Wilder wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, the Cinch is going to be better at feeding slack, and the grigri (or grigri2) is going to be better at lowering.


+1


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By Robert Buswold
From Longmont, CO
Jan 13, 2011
Clear Creek Canyon, Capitalist Crag

I've got a question - I understand that you say the gym requires use of the grigri or similar device, and that's reasonable because it adds a little bit of security in case someone with less experience is belaying the climber - but why do experienced climbers actually use this type of device? They seem much less versatile than a device that costs 1/4 of their price... ie. ATC Guide or even the plain old ATC.


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By JPVallone
Jan 13, 2011

No Contest, The Grigri 2 is slick, unless you have used one yet, hold your critiques and see for yourself after you play with one.

Worth every penny in comparison to whats out there now. I thought it excelled in every aspect compared to the competition. If your sold on the way your device works now and it gets the job done, great, but your gear does wear out, so when it's time check it out.


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By Bill C.
From Fort Collins, CO
Jan 13, 2011

I have only fiddled with the GriGri 2, but I have used the GriGri 1 and cinch many times and this is how I think they compare:

GriGri:

Pros:
1. It is generally easier to lower
2. You can belay without ever having to touch or manipulate the device or any of its components.
3. It seems to be more popular, and therefor more people seem to be comfortable or familiar with its use. (Usage can however often vary)

Cons:
1. Grigri 1 is heavier than the cinch. Grigri 2 is about the same. Honestly doesnt make a difference to me at all.
2. learning to feed slack can be a challenge, and even after years of use it will never feed as smoothly as a cinch can. Any efforts to try and make it feed easier often tend to create extremely poor technique.
3. Perhaps more room for error in set up. (Both plates must be clipped to conceal the rope within the device. Failing to do so can cause device to open)
4. More expensive

Cinch:

Pros:
1. Feeds rope easier
2. Only one spot to clip (this isnt a big deal at all, but the people at trango seemed to think it was)
3. Cheaper
4. Accepts wider range of rope sizes. (GriGri 2 has accounted for this however. Technically you could always use smaller diameter ropes with the GriGri 1, however without actively braking the rope the cam might not activate)
5. Lighter than Grgri 1

Cons:
1. Impossible to feed slack without physically touching the device or manipulating its components
2. Can take a lot of time to learn to efficiently lower a climber, and even after several years experience can still cause issues

Comparable Features:
Both will automatically stop a fall
Both can be used to belay seconds (if used properly)
Both with not function if threaded backwards
Both can lead to poor belay technique if the belayer is taught or primarily uses that device.

Whichever feature is more important to you, then buy that device!


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By shoo
From Boston, Massachusetts
Jan 14, 2011
Rock wars, Red River Gorge

Robert Buswold wrote:
I've got a question - I understand that you say the gym requires use of the grigri or similar device, and that's reasonable because it adds a little bit of security in case someone with less experience is belaying the climber - but why do experienced climbers actually use this type of device? They seem much less versatile than a device that costs 1/4 of their price... ie. ATC Guide or even the plain old ATC.


You have this exactly backwards.

Inexperienced climbers, in general, should typically NOT be using assisted locking belay devices. The temptation to replace competence with convenience has resulted in a number of dropped climbers.

Experience climbers will often use assisted locking devices because it is often very convenient to have a devices which, once locked, stays that way until needed. This makes all kinds of things easier, especially for sport climbers.


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By Brad "Stonyman" Killough
Administrator
From Alabama
Jan 14, 2011
Starting the second section of Live to climb another day

Gri-Gri


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By John P.
Jan 14, 2011

Don't know about the GriGri2 but compared to the regular GriGri the Cinch is a far better device, It's more intuitive and and feeds slack much better. If you take some time to learn proper technique it is also easier to lower with the GriGri.


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By Windy Pete
Jan 15, 2011

There alot of climbers that love the cinch and I used to be one of them. I have recently experienced and heard of many instances of problems using the cinch that have since convinced me to THROW MINE AWAY. In addition to my droping my partner two bolts due to my inattention I have a friend who decked due to his belay partner keeping the cinch cam open resulting in a broken back and neck. While not going into the details I believe the Cinch to be dangerous (yes I understand they were operator errors, but I believe the Cinch is more apt to lead belayers to making errors). I've also corresponded with an editor from Rock and Ice Mag. and he has heard of a rope being cut by a Cinch and witnessed a Cinch break during lowering. P.s. That same editor has been using the GriGri 2 for about two months now and loves it. He said that they'll be available to the general public in March.


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By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Jan 15, 2011
OMG, I winz!!!

Peter London wrote:
I have recently experienced and heard of many instances of problems using the cinch that have since convinced me to THROW MINE AWAY.


So because you don't know how to use a device that's critical to your partner's life, then you drop them and now you blame the device? There is a short video on the internet that clearly explains how a Cinch safely operates. You should not need to pinch the cam to feed out rope and your brake hand is always on.

You have to be a fool to think that what you just posted influences anyone's opinion other than the one that you're an idiot.


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By proto
From Falmouth (MA)
Jan 15, 2011
at the belay on the super classic rewritten

Grigri2!
I've been testing it for a month and it's much better than both Grigri1 and Cinch.


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By Sam Stephens
Jan 15, 2011
Top half of Melifluous

Peter London wrote:
There alot of climbers that love the cinch and I used to be one of them. I have recently experienced and heard of many instances of problems using the cinch that have since convinced me to THROW MINE AWAY. In addition to my droping my partner two bolts due to my inattention I have a friend who decked due to his belay partner keeping the cinch cam open resulting in a broken back and neck. While not going into the details I believe the Cinch to be dangerous (yes I understand they were operator errors, but I believe the Cinch is more apt to lead belayers to making errors). I've also corresponded with an editor from Rock and Ice Mag. and he has heard of a rope being cut by a Cinch and witnessed a Cinch break during lowering. P.s. That same editor has been using the GriGri 2 for about two months now and loves it. He said that they'll be available to the general public in March.


I'm speechless... You are beyond dumb. You openly admit to making an operator error with your device and that others have too, yet you still blame the device for your inattention and ineptitude?

Basically you're going on hearsay and a lack of belaying skill for your disdain towards the Cinch?


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By mikejohnson1
From Essex Junction, VT
Jan 15, 2011

Dude, If your gym lets you, you should get the Mammut Smart. I like it better than the gri gri or the cinch, and it is about the cost of an ATC.

Better option. Quit going to the gym, and go outside. Outside you can climb with whatever you want. I guess then you should still get the Mammut...


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By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Jan 15, 2011
OMG, I winz!!!

proto wrote:
Grigri2! I've been testing it for a month and it's much better than both Grigri1 and Cinch.


Better is a little nebulous. Any specifics? Would love to hear the differences.


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By proto
From Falmouth (MA)
Jan 15, 2011
at the belay on the super classic rewritten

Here is what comes to my mind right away as far as improvements are concerned:

- feeds rope much more easily
- smaller
- lighter

In the mean time the pros of the Grigri1 are still there.


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By Toe Moss
From Colorado
Jan 15, 2011

daniel c wrote:
I'm sticking with my Cinch. Still lighter and range of rope diameters is effectively the same for my purposes (ie I'm never going to use a rope thinner than 9.7 or fatter than 10.5). Also, the Cinch is a time tested design using time tested materials. I'll wait for others to guinea pig the Grigri2 before I shell out the money for a new belay assist device. CINCH Weight: 182 grams / 6.42 oz Recommended Rope Diameter: 9.4 - 11mm GRIGRI2 Weight: 185 grams / 6.53 oz Recommended Rope Diameter: 8.9 to 11mm


So, for your purposes, does does 3 grams make a big difference?


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By Jason Halladay
Administrator
From Los Alamos, NM
Jan 15, 2011
Climbing at the Belvedere crag near Nago with a great view of the northern end of Lake Garda and the town of Torbole sul Garda below. June 2013.

Peter London wrote:
There alot of climbers that love the cinch and I used to be one of them. I have recently experienced and heard of many instances of problems using the cinch that have since convinced me to THROW MINE AWAY. In addition to my droping my partner two bolts due to my inattention I have a friend who decked due to his belay partner keeping the cinch cam open resulting in a broken back and neck. While not going into the details I believe the Cinch to be dangerous (yes I understand they were operator errors, but I believe the Cinch is more apt to lead belayers to making errors). I've also corresponded with an editor from Rock and Ice Mag. and he has heard of a rope being cut by a Cinch and witnessed a Cinch break during lowering. P.s. That same editor has been using the GriGri 2 for about two months now and loves it. He said that they'll be available to the general public in March.


Replies:
Chris Plesko wrote:
You have to be a fool to think that what you just posted influences anyone's opinion other than the one that you're an idiot.


Sam Stephens wrote:
I'm speechless... You are beyond dumb. ... Basically you're going on hearsay and a lack of belaying skill for your disdain towards the Cinch?


Easy there, you guys are unnecessarily harsh. Remember rule #1 and be nice. Peter explicitly said "[he] believes the Cinch is more apt to lead belayers making more errors." He didn't directly blame the device as you two imply. I stopped using my Cinch this past summer (after two years of experience with it) after twice falling further than I should have while leading and twice allowing leaders I was belaying to fall further than they should have. I don't explicitly blame the Cinch but do find it easier to let more rope through the device than with a GriGri. And I know, and practice, the proper way to use both devices. So as these things go, the best device for you is the one you're the most comfortable with and know how to use the best. I'm not condoning the Cinch or calling it unsafe (I really liked when I was using it), it's just not for me and for safety's sake, I'm not afraid to admit it.

To the OP here, if you haven't already, I'd suggest borrowing/renting each device and see how you like the two. I've heard the GG2 is due out in March so if you can rent a little longer, it's probably worth the wait, IMO.


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By Chad Wagner
Jan 18, 2011
me

My take is this- My friend was involved in a rescue at The Dark Side crag in The Red River Gorge. The belayer was using a Cinch, correctly threaded, when the climb took the fall and decked. The belayer had rope burns in hands and the cinch didnt catch. I would not advise this but know the Gri Gri will catch a fall without holding the rope at all. The climber died in ICU. You make the choice. Or wait on the Gri Gri 2


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