The new guy, again, with more questions...

I'm acquiring more gear as my daughters and I learn more about climbing. We've got everything we need for bouldering, but we're getting ready to venture into top roping and eventually into sport climbing.

I've got a small backpack, probably 20L, but it doesn't seem like it'll be large enough to handle all the gear for a top roping adventure or a sport climb.

Should I simply lash as much as I can to the exterior of my Osprey pack, or should I invest in another, larger pack, and make my 10 year old pack some gear in as well with my smaller pack? With helmets, rope, slings, biners, quick draws, shoes, chalk, lunch, first aid kit, etc. the weight and size adds up quickly.

As always, I value and appreciate the insight I've received through these boards more than I can say...

Darren B.

Give your eldest daughter your pack. Get a 52 liter Osprey Variant for yourself and if you can't fit all your stuff into these two packs, well then you just have to leave some stuff behind don't you?

If you lash stuff onto the outside of your pack it just won't carry well.

Just get a pack that is 50 liters and don't carry more.
Your daughter will appreciate the fact that she is being responsible and the exercise will build her self-esteem.

I always "let" my kids carry the rope along with their harness helmet shoes and water. Makes about a 15 lb pack which is perfect.

Osprey Variant.

I have a Variant 37, but it sounds like you need the 52.

-Glenn

If you want to go to sport crags, the Osprey will work just fine. I would think if one of you has your 20L and one has a 37L Osprey, that'd be plenty.

If you intend to get into long adventurous climbs, I'd advise against getting any sort of Osprey pack. They are built more for hiking and backpacking than technical climbing.

If you're looking into longer climbs, check out Cold Cold World and Cilogear packs. If you aren't looking to do anything crazy, I'd still rather have the durability of a Black Diamond pack over an Osprey...

Make sure to also check out the Black Diamond Predator 50 and Speed 40.

Black Diamond Predator 50. Convenience of a side loader, durability of a top loader. All sorts of pockets for anything you would use climbing. I use mine for ice climbing, but you'd probably find the 42 Sphinx ideal for what you're doing.

Go to a local store (BlackDome, or REI or wherever). Find the "climbing guy/gal" who works at the store, and start talking to them. Tell them what your goals are, and they will help you.

Base your decision on fit, durability, and price. You are probably not going to be carrying a lot of gear a long way (both relative terms, I know!), so durability and price may be more important, but that is your call. Look for reinforced/heavier material on the bottom, where your pack will most likely spend a lot of its time.

Take all your gear with you and put it in the packs you try out. Walk around the store with it. Get packing tips in the process.

50 liters is a large capacity for sport climbing, but should you decide you want one that large, then REI outlet has a Lowe pack on sale. These are great, durable packs--I have the Alpine Attack 40 and it is well thought out. I've used it for the past five years as a crag bag and as an alpine climbing bag for overnighters. With 40 liters, I can fit a full trad rack and slings, helmet, harness, water, 2 pairs of shoes, jacket, food, and guidebook, and if I needed to, the rope would go between the body and lid.

On a subject closer to your previous online buying post--trying on a number of packs at REI and then buying from REI outlet online would probably be considered kosher by even the most stringent of try-on-here/buy-here posters.

Have fun!

I have a 45L pack that I can fit my 60m rope, full trad rack, harness, draws, lunch, and a litter of water in. I strap my helement and shoes to the outside. Oh and my pack is an REI brand I got on sale as it sees a lot of abuse. Anything between 40-50L should be plenty.

http://www.coldcoldworldpacks.com/ozone.htm

Made in the USA and the price is right. Love the size of this pack. Owner is great to work with.

For cragging I use a CAMP Rox+. It is a duffel style pack with a zipper that opens the back top to bottom. It carries well for 30 minute or less approaches. The top folds over like a river dry bag. Pack comes with a CAMP Rocky tarp which is nice.

http://www.camp-usa.com/products/packs/rox-plus.asp

You can fit a bunch of stuff in there, perfect for a day of cragging. Retails for about 130.

Think I'm going to have to go against the flow here... For TR and occasional sport with the kids you're not really going to be carrying that much and will likely be fine with what you've got. Throw the gear in the bag and then either coil the rope and lash it to the top of the pack or wear it as a butterfly coil on top of the pack. Kiddies get their own small packs with water, snacks, shoes, harness, etc.
a slightly bigger pack may make life easier, but simply moving the rope outside the bag may free up more than enough space.

50 liters is the money size for cragging. I personally have and like the osprey exposure 50. it fits me well and has climbing specific features. The one complaint is that it it difficult to load. I know a couple others who hate this pack, so try it on before you buy.

Yes, have your daughters carry things. Even if its just their school packs with a lunch, it instills responsibilitya nd collaboration(and saves your back).

Really, you can get by with an army rucksack. It just won't be as comfortable, but they're like black holes for taking all your stuff. Pick based on your budget and fit. 50 liters is about the size you'll want. Bigger and you're taking too much, smaller and you'll be strapping to the outside.

I use a Black Diamond ice pack 44L and it has been a great pack but no longer made, however I recently picked up a small Mammut pack and have been very impressed with the quality and it carries better than any pack that I have used, just another option.

http://www.sunnysports.com/Catalog.aspx?op=BrandDisplay&Bran>>>>>

Keep in mind:
homies in Asheville need big packs so when it rains all their stuff can fit inside.

Tha's funny. Today's the first sunny day in about ten days, it seems. If only I had the chance to throw my gear in a pack and hit the rock. I'll be lucky if I can just get up to the rock, throw on my shoes, and chalk up before the rain starts up again.

Great suggestions on the packs. I'm already prepping my girls to pick out one of their old school packs for the trail. I definitely want a bigger pack than what I've got now, but until I scrape up the cash, how do you recommend I use the little daisy chain running down the middle of my small Osprey pack so that I can lash some gear. I'm thinking webbing, slings, perhaps the quickdraws...

The same principles of loading a pack hold for over loading a pack. Keep the weight low and neutral to your center of gravity as much as possible.

I would store the heaviest stuff low and inside the pack. Usually, water is the bottom layer(leave one bottle handy) and then hard gear. I putt lighter stuff on top like slings and jackets. Usually, shoes and helmets get clipped to the outside(be careful of fragile foam helmets). Finally, I backpack coil (look it up if you don't know how) my rope and tie it to myself over the entire pack.

Just find what works for you. Keep in mind that you want the load to affect you balance as little as possible, so keep it low and evenly dispersed.

Evan

For cragging, I like the Deadbird (Arcteryx) Miura 50, but depending on the size you take (S,M, or L) and how much stuff you want to carry, the 30 might be enough. Super easy to load/unload and doubles as a "Crazy Creek" chair.

You might also want to check out Cilogear.