tharlow, sorry if I flamed you, not my intention, I'm just really sarcastic.

Anyway, I assume you mean factors like a foot popping off suddenly, or rock breaking? I would argue, probably unsuccessfully, that these are all factors that should be considered before your belayer starts yarding out slack to clip. I've broken many holds, my feet have popped many times, etc. Maybe its luck, but I've managed to avoid having these things happen to me while I was clipping. I'd like to think its because I'm paying attention.

Ken,

I see your point. You did not misinterpret. Rather, I mis-stated. I meant to say, WHEN THE BELAYER IS CLIPPING, I give two full wingspans...

Sorry for the confusion.

Well, I guess nobody will be bumming a belay off me anytime soon...

Mike
thanks for the feedback. I can see your point regarding the objective hazard and benefits to an autolocking device while ice climbing, but had doubts about the device locking under those conditions and wanted some advice.

Monomaniac,

I want to apologize for the harsh words. As much as I have some serious issues with the advice that you posted, there was no excuse for calling you out like that. That is one of my shortcomings, and I am trying to work on it, not always with great success.

I hope that you'll give some more thought to the consequences of paying out so much slack, as there are much safer ways of getting enough rope out to the leader during clips.

KC

I think a big part of the problem with the GriGri is a lack of attentiveness and lack of proper technique in belaying. The so-called autolock devices, like the GriGri and Cinch, unfortunately can foster this.

When I teach newer climbers, I instill in them the importance of what I call "The Deluxe Belay". I expect it from my belayers when I am leading and I give it when I am belaying a leader. The elements are as follows:

• Complete attention to the leader. This means LOOKING at the leader as much as possible and STAYING FOCUSED on what they are doing. I don't care if you get a stiff neck from looking up; that's part of the game. No chatting up the cute gal on the next route. No fiddling with your gear, petting the nearby dog, looking down at your shoes as if you're bored with the slow progress the leader is making. No staring off into space thinking about what you're going to do that evening. The leader's safety is YOUR responsibility. Act as if it's a life and death situation, WHICH IT IS.

• Proper belay position. If you're belaying the first pitch of a climb, get in the best position to belay. Usually close to the rock wall and in line with the first bolt/first piece of protection. Figure out if you want to be on the right or left of the leader when they start up. Anchor in (if possible) if the situation requires it; if you're on an exposed ledge, for example. Don't belay like this:

• Be attentive to the leader's actions. Let them know if there is a problem. "You're Z-clipping!" "Flip your rope around that flake!" "You may want to back-clean/extend the runner on that last piece to prevent rope drag!" "Halfway!" "10 feet!" (of rope left).

• Have the rope neatly spilled and ready to go with the leader's end on top. No leader wants to hear "Are you in a good spot?" when the belayer has to deal with a tangled pile of rope spaghetti.

• On one-pitch sport routes, tie in to the tail end or the rope, tie a knot in it, or have it tied in to the rope bag so there won't be a lowering accident if the pitch is a half-rope length (or a little more). Watch the midpoint of the rope and KNOW if you've passed it before the leader reaches the top of the pitch! (You ARE climbing on a rope with a well-defined middle mark, aren't you???)

• Communicate with the leader BEFORE they leave the ground as to the plan. Are they going to lower? Rappel? Belay you up to the top? KNOW THE PLAN BEFORE THE LEADER LEAVES THE GROUND.

• Proper control of slack. Adjust the amount of slack to the situation. If the leader is moving quickly on easy ground, have enough slack so they can move without being tugged by the rope. If they are above pro and stalled out at a hard move, take almost all the slack out of the system and be prepared to haul in rope (or run downhill) if they fall. If they are about to make a clip, give them plenty of clip slack, but JUST as they reach down for the rope to make the clip, not before. Once the clip is made, take the excess slack out of the system. Failure to properly control slack is one of the most common belaying mistakes that I see.

• Proper technique with the belay device. Study and follow the manufacturer's instructions, especially for devices like the GriGri and Trango Cinch. Practice with these devices so you can quickly feed out slack (JUST when needed), quickly take in excess slack after the clip, and catch a fall while you're feeding out slack. Train less-experienced partners in the proper use of these devices BEFORE expecting them to belay you using one.

Ron writes: If they are above pro and stalled out at a hard move, take almost all the slack out of the system and be prepared to haul in rope (or run downhill) if they fall.

I really don't even want to say it in this "sky is falling, microfracture, sulfer trioxide, is my belay loop strong enough" internet we float around on... but one thing to add to Rons excellent post..... damn.... I don't even want to start this off...... but I must. When you yard in rope or run down hill, the forces on the piece that is going to hold the fall are greatly enhanced. There... ok.... I said it......

A real world example..... Let's say I'm at the top of a string of micro wires and pop.... the belayer yarding in rope will up the fall factor on the top piece (less rope = less time = higher forces). This may not be something you want.

Example #2: Same deal as above, but perhaps all nuts on a thin crack lead..... I pop and the belayer runs down hill, which changes the angle of the rope going through the initial piece, which in turn gets yarded up at a bad angle when my weight comes onto the rope, and then zippers the stoppers right out of the crack.

True, these are rare scenarios, but real ones, and I may just be mouse milking, but it is at least something you could think about while belaying.

Once again, great post Ron. I'm with ya 100% on 97.469% of your post.

Good points, Russ. I was thinking more of sport routes or trad routes with a bomber top piece; the tragic groundfall of Mike McGlynn on a sport route in Red Rock earlier this year was on my mind. A leader above shaky pro is definitely another story.

Another situation where a soft catch/dynamic belay is preferable to yarding in slack is if the leader is above pro on an overhanging sport route. A little more slack will result in a clean air fall, instead of the leader slamming into the rock just below the top bolt. In this case, the belayer must be prepared to let out a little slack, or rise up (or even jump in the air!) if the leader falls. The nuances of the Deluxe Belay!

The only time I've ever (EVER) been dropped by a belayer, they were using a GriGri. I was really lucky that I wasn't seriously injured or killed. I hate those things. In my case, my belayer was lowering me off of a sport route when the rope became so tangled that my belayer couldn't feed the rope thru their GriGri. They stopped lowering me & proceeded to use both hands to untangle the rope while the GriGri held me. As they worked on the tangle, twisting & turning the giant knot so as to work the twists out of the rope (you all know what a twisted heap of rope looks like), they inadvertently hooked the GriGri's lever with a loop of rope, which released the Grigri's grip on the rope and "zing!" I plummeted to the ground. The ONLY way you can drop someone with a GriGri or any other belay method is for you to take your damn hands off the rope. My beef with the use of a GriGri is that it gives you the mistaken impression that you don't have to hang onto the rope in order to maintain a safe belay. Like I said to begin with, I hate those things.

A former climbing partner of mine, who shall remain nameless as I will catch shit on this site for menitoning his name, was sponsored by Petzl prior to and when the gri gri came out. I was given one to belay him with when it was a prototype and I have never looked back. In 18 years of using gri gri's I have seen numberous people dropped, but all of them were dropped because the belayer screwed up. I have never seen a gri gri not catch even on a 9mm rope (real 9, not the new pretend "9"). It will slip, but it will eventually catch. I will not go so far as to say they are full proof, but if you use a gri gri correctly it is a safer device than anything old school... yes, safer. If you pull off a block and take your partners head off he will still catch you with a gri gri.

The problem with the GriGri is not that the device fails, but that it's easy to misuse, which results in climbers getting dropped.

The "autolock" feature can lead untrained belayers into letting go of the rope with their brake hand, freezing up in the event of a fall, grabbing the body of the device, instead of letting go of the device and securely grabbing the brake end of the rope.

The GriGri requires knowledge, training, and practice in order to belay properly with it. Being able to feed out slack quickly, and still maintain control of the brake end of the rope, is a skill that must be practiced to be mastered. Too many belayers have not mastered this skill, and too many climbers get dropped as a result.

The Gri-Gri is a great device and I think I've worn mine out from using it so much. The problem is people buy them, pull them out of the box and start using them and just assume that they'll autolock no matter what. There is definitely some technique involved, and the device is obviously not failsafe. A few years ago a good friend tried to tell me that I was feeding rope wrong and I didn't listen. Some time after that I dropped a close friend while belaying with a Gri-Gri just after he clipped. Luckily he was maybe 10' off the ground and landed on a soft gym floor. Since then I've revised my technique and only push on the device with my brake hand as long as I need to without taking my brake hand off the rope.

One of my close friends broke his back in a gym from a lowering incident. He was on toprope and was being lowered from about 40 feet. The belayer was accustomed to using an atc and the only option for TR in the gym are Gri-Gri's anchored into the floor. He basically freefell from 30+ feet while the belayer held the device open and burned his brake hand to the bone.

If you use a Gri-Gri, make sure you are as diligent as when using any other belay device and take the time to learn to use it properly.

I was dropped (in a gym) years ago while being lowered with a grigri in a similar situation to what climber73 details. I was fortunately not seriously hurt. I prefer to be belayed on an ATC now.

I found 1/2 of a gri-gri at the base of Notchtop- they obviously are not fool-proof! (*grin*)

Amen, Ron!

Belaying should be as active as the climbing! If every belayer obeyed those rules, accidents/injuries would probably be cut in half or more!

Mr. Bubb emailed to correct me- taking in a foot of slack during a fall only shortens the fall by one foot- maybe a little more because there is less energy to absorb and therefore less rope stretch.