Hi all,
BD's new Chinese made cams are on full display at the EMS here in New York City and probably other places, too I'm sure.
The price is exactly the same as it always was.
Long live outsourcing.

Right-on Jimn.

Look, it IS outsourcing - a little commodity called labor. So, for the sake of discussion, let's try to keep it real.

I'm really not commenting... only "marking" this thread so I can find it later via my profile.












(though I don't believe that BD has maxed out all resources in SLC & cannot keep expanding stateside)

(nor that the increased profit margin from a massive decrease in labor costs ultimately results in anything beneficial, except for the internal economies of BD stateside & the local economy of BD-Asia/China)

If BD is saving money going to China, why aren't we saving money on their gear...oh yeah, capitalism. The bottom line is this: technically most companies making gear in china are US Based, so you could say they are made by US companies, but that isn't true. With all the recent recalls on China made toys , tooth paste, and the like..come on now, this is a bad decision. I expect more from BD. However you look at it, outsourcing, in-sourcing, etc.., it's not good for the middle class America when we start sending jobs over seas. Lets remember that a large part of our national debt is based off what we export vs. what we import...just look at the Dollar vs. the Euro. The less goods we produce here the greater the economic disparity. Thirty years ago some guy could get a girl knocked up in high school and get a job at a mill...probably not a great job, but one that could support his family and give them medical insurance, and retirement. Now, we have a lot of service jobs which offer no benefits, so the lower classes aren't being supported, and i believe we will all suffer from this.
Sorry for the soapbox, but the outdoor companies have been the last bastion of keeping it at home, and it's sad to watch them all go over seas. I applaud companies like Arc Teryx who have kept their company at home in Canada....are they still doing that ?

All the Arc'Teryx jackets I've seen in stores say " Made In China"

That's too bad. Thanks for the info

Metolius cams are still made in the US by climbers. Just a thought...

And I don't, and never have, cared for the Camalot design execution in any version since they first came out specifically because they've always had such a rattly, sloppy feel, and the thin axles just don't inspire confidence for me personally. Love the thumb loops, though - bummer they aren't the business end of the units.

With regard to the effects of globalization. Back in the late '80s MIT economics professor Lester Thurow, once commented: "in the not too distant future, if you have the skills of a Guatemalan day laborer, you're going to get paid like one even if you live in Brooklyn, NY."

The thrust of his comments was that this is all a result of a transportation revolution that has reversed the industrial revolution standard practice of moving skills to wherever the materials are located. He posited Globalization is a natural result of the ease at which we now move materials long distances at will. We can now simply move materials to wherever the requisite skills are available at the lowest cost.

He said the only hope for the future we, individually and collectively as a nation, have lays in enhancing our skill set. He was particualarly down on our education system with its lack of national standards, which he described as, "5000 incompetent local school boards, all cranking out a lousy product."

It is agreed that our school system is cranking out more liberal arts folks, rather then the math and sciences, and this Professor you mention does make a good point. But, how is the relationship to our national skill set linked to the dollar? I'm no professor, but i believe our 96 free trade agreements hurt our country by decreasing the skilled/ unskilled job market. Factories closed, or moved to foreign countries in order to compete?... or not to compete, but to make more money. That means less money in the local communities, a rise in small business killers (big box) also taking money out of the community. Now, a lot of farmers, and factories can't afford legal labor, and still turn a profit without government subsidies. We are becoming more of a country based on sales, and financial investment, because that is where the money is. I believe less people are getting science and engineering degrees, because the jobs aren't there, not because they are more interested in 17th century english lit...
China is growing at an amazing rate, and their currency is regulated to work in parallel with ours, those jobs are coming from somewhere. I'm not anti-china, but i do worry about the economic stability of all the economic classes of our country. If MIT was not 40,000 a year then i might want to take some classes there.

there are plenty of jobs in technology (though not in science--there is a HUGE difference). with a computer science degree fresh out of college i got an offer from the first place i sent my resume. all my engineering buddies from college had similar success. the reason people aren't getting technology degrees is because when they make their life choice to go into a field they're clueless 18-year-olds and aren't thinking 4 years ahead when they'll actually need to get a real job. tons of people go back to school later in life to get tech degrees. i met plenty of them back in the engineering program at my school.

but about black diamond. i've always stood behind a company outsourcing if they can't otherwise compete with their (also outsourcing) competitors' costs, but black diamond's prices clearly haven't gone down. if anything they've gone up at a steady rate. i'm going to think twice about buying black diamond gear from now on...though i'll probably give in and buy more BD stuff because it's hard to beat their quality. though all the chinese product recalls do worry me, especially when we're talking about gear that i frequently trust my life to.

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsb0407/

I found this to be an interesting article, that would support your point.

thanks for the article luke. i'd heard and read similar things over the years but i'd never come across anything this conclusive. it seems that these days college has become more a social experience than an investment in the future. it's hard to say why students from other countries appear to be more forward-thinking than americans. maybe children from other countries are taught to be realistic while american children grow up surrounded by a media saturated with glamorous celebrities and a you-can-be-whatever-you-want-to-be mentality.

i guess what it all comes down to is that outsourcing is going to happen whether we like it or not, and to deal with it we have to be able to adapt to a changing world. a lot of people will probably disagree with me and i can understand that, but that is the way i see it.

i agree ken. i was trying to make that point but i'm not always the most articulate person. thanks for clarifying it.

Do you guys think that the government should protect America from out sourcing itself? it seems like Washington is making a lot of money investing in corporations which are going a little heavy on the exploitation hand. Maybe it is a fine line between exploitation and capitalism. i like to think of the fruit orchard analogue. If our country was symbolic of the producing, growing orchard, then should our government play the role of the juicer or the caretaker? If we pick too hard one season, it could effect us negatively in the long run?
Is it possible that our government has the same problem as our youth...that is, looking for quick gains, while not looking at the bigger picture. I think that Ken and Jon are right, about the youth today, but i think it is hard for them (the youth) to get a clear picture of what the long term ramifications are, both socially, and economically. Understanding that these things are directly linked.
I really liked this statement "i guess what it all comes down to is that outsourcing is going to happen whether we like it or not, and to deal with it we have to be able to adapt to a changing world.", by Jon. We live in an ever changing market (most of us will have six plus "careers") and we need to be adaptable.
How do we teach this to our youth today?

Not just young people, our society in general lives in the "now"; with me first & instant gratification demanded. This is as much an "adult" problem as it is a youth problem.

That is a great point Mark. That makes a good connection to the "why do we climb" post for me.

Basically, if BD doesn't adapt their process to meet this demand, they will fail to remain business or remain at a much more diminshed capacity; leaving market share for other companies to enjoy.

Yeah, I dropped out of school to be writer..??..Mostly i just smoked pot everyday. I hate to be down on people who follow their dreams, but maybe our dreams at 18 aren't necessarily our dreams a decade later. I have my own company, and i spend a lot of time in front of the computer or on the phone. Thank god there is climbing, and this website to keep me sane throughout the day. Cheers to all the people of MP!

I believe in you Richard. You should follow your dreams.

Glad to see this thread getting new life. The issue is far bigger than the greed and avarice practiced by a small company like BD.

This Wall Street driven out-sourcing of the US economy, by US companies big and small, is rapidly destroying our entire economic base, save for those at the very top of the food chain. Once the muscle is gone, they'll go for the bone.