well said- i hear it might be cool at the creek this weekend....

"All I can say is Wow. Listening to some of you is scary."

Likewise Glime. . . you get nuttier with each response. And tell me, what do you know about the military? Were you once JAG or something? Some officer in the judicial branch? I could have sworn that the Abu ghraib (you know, the place of heinous atrocities) soldiers were pretty well slammed.
(BTW I didn't vote for Bush so I'm not the crazy neo-con you'd like me to be).

Sorry I couldn't respond to everyone (I know, it's a let down). . . time is short.

You people want to make the world a better, safer, cleaner place? Start with your own country, and its citizens. Sending our money to support China and take away from America is bad business. That's my point(s).

all i own are camalots!!!!

nah, we don't get pissed off, we get sprayed on!

Hubbell - "I don't think anyone here has said that buying from China is better than buying from the US."

Nor did I imply this. . . .
Nor did I insinuate American perfection. For the upteenth time I'm simply stating that we ought to support America and our citizens, even if it deduces the CEO's to a mere 500k annual bonus.

Glime -
Aha! So that's the problem.
The media, for the most part, is another one of those great establishments that have been "shot at and missed" on many occassions, but "shit at and hit" even more!
That is to say they are wide-eyed and frantic, but mostly full of it.
(Turczyk, right on).

Okay, I'm done defending my support of country (whacky babble).
Feel free to reign terror and slander upon my good name.
It's been a pleasure.

This thread is amazing.
Amazingly pathetic.
There are some good points by those that actually stick to a topic
but the rest of you sound like Norm of Cheers or something.
Do you guys really find enjoyment in punter discussions like these?
Seriously.
Just staggering. Thanks for reminding me in 5 minutes why I don't read stupid forums.
Don't bother replying w/ your cute little comebacks....I won't come back to anymore important forum discussions like this one.
From the Troll under the Bridge.

okay, Lee, see you later.

I thought this was all fairly engaging & we hadn't discussed things for a while.

Seemed more like a community to me.

Hey,
This BD controveresy has given me inspiration. I am just going to sack up and forget about gear protection. I have used it for years as crutch. Climb free and I will see you on the other side.

That was fun -- we should do it more often.

In a previous post, the BD CEO posted a detailed response to concerns about BD moving to China.
My personal deconstruction: the BD CEO’s response appears in quotes, lowercase. MY RESPONSE IS ALL CAPS.
Disclaimer: This reply is being written on my Chinese made (but designed in California!) Mac computer with a neat software program included in all Macs, iRONY v.1.0

”Thanks for your thoughtfully composed questions. In addition, I have
just read the thread on Mountain Project and I am expanding upon your
questions so as to set the record straight for all those there. Everyone
is entitled to their own opinion, however it helps when they have the
facts vs. rumors to develop those opinions.”
“As a growing global brand, when we evaluate our production we
must be unbiased as to the best overall course of action in terms of quality, cost and location. Our aim is to constantly improve our systems and compromise nothing.”

EXCEPT FUTURE US JOB GROWTH AND THE NURTURING AND RETENTION OF A LIVING US KNOWLEDGE BASE AND THE SKILL SETS CAPABLE OF BUILDING HIGH QUALITY GEAR.


“First off, it is important to understand that our manufacturing of
goods, specifically pro, is being done in OUR factory in China. This is
not an outsourced vendor operation. This is a Black Diamond built,
owned, and managed facility that is operated and staffed by Black
Diamond employees.

The BD team that got the operation going and is managing it has and/or
does include the former head of engineering and manufacturing of BD SLC,
the second in command of our QA department, our senior special project
guy, one of our lead process engineers and a host of other BD employees
(including myself) who have shuttled back and forth between BD Asia and
BD North America. For that matter, we have had BD Europe employees there
helping out as well.”

HOW MANY 1ST CLASS AIR FLIGHTS BY THE BD CEO DID THIS TAKE, ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER EXPENSES AND TIME SPENT FLYING TO CHINA? FYI: CURRENT 1ST CLASS, SLC TO BEIJING IS APPROX $8500 TO $15,000. ALL THIS SHUTTLING MUST HAVE COST BD IN THE LOW- MID SIX FIGURES ON AIR ALONE.

“Conversely, we have had a steady flow of BD Asia employees coming here to SLC to train.”


TYPICAL CHINESE BUSINESS THEFT TECHNIQUE, THEY GET YOU TO DIG YOUR OWN GRAVE BY YOU PAYING THEM TO STEAL FROM YOU.


”Secondly, please understand that the testing equipment, testing
standards, and training have all come from BD USA and are managed by BD
SLC people at this time.”

HOW ABOUT NEXT YEAR?

“Thirdly, understand that the supply chain of components and parts is the
same as it has been. The cams going onto the Camalots are made from
USA-produced 7000 series aluminum, that are machined on our CNCs overseen
by our engineers; the anodizing is done by Easton Aluminum here in SLC
and then they are shipped to our Asian facility. Cable, springs, and
other parts still come from here or from the same suppliers that we were
using when we were assembling them here. The supply chain is not
changed.”



IF ALL THE PARTS COME FROM THE US, WHY BOTHER SHIPPING THEM TO CHINA TO PUT THEM TOGETHER AND THEN SHIP THEM RIGHT BACK TO THE US?
BD CHINA MUST PAY REALLY LOW WAGES TO MAKE THIS WORTHWHILE. ALL THIS SHIPPING = OIL FOR PLANES, SHIPS AND TRUCKS. NOT EXACTLY THE HALLMARKS OF A GREEN ENTERPRISE, AS WE ARE BEING LED TO BELIEVE. ESPECIALLY WHEN OUR TROOPS ARE DYING ON AN ALMOST DAILY BASIS IN THE OIL WAR IN IRAQ.
IS EASTON ALUMINUM PLANNING TO START MAKING ALUMINUM SPECIALTY PRODUCTS IN CHINA, TOO?

“The Asian employees at BD's operation are well trained, dedicated, adult
professionals who work in a new, very modern facility that is the envy
of people in SLC.”

THE DEATH KNELL FOR BD IN SLC. INNOVATION FOLLOWS MONEY.
BD’S CEO IS ADMITTING THAT THE SLC FACILITY DAY’S ARE NUMBERED.

“All of them who have worked for us get out climbing on
company trips and we have built a very large, climbing wall at the
facility that allows employees to climb at lunch and after work. Our
training and their dedication is nothing less than inspiring.”


HOW NICE. WE SUBSIDIZE THEIR CLIMBING TRIPS, AS LONG AS AMERICAN CLIMBERS KEEP FORKING OUT THE BD PREMIUM, FOR GEAR THAT WILL NO LONGER BE MADE HERE. WHAT A DEAL.


”As you know, when you order an iPod or a PowerBook directly from Apple
it comes directly from their facility in China.”

BD SEEMS PROUD TO BE FOLLOWING THE US TECH COMPANIES LEAD IN THROWING OVER AMERICAN WORKERS TO MAXIMIZE PROFIT AT ALL COSTS. MACS ETC, WOULD NOT BE MADE IN CHINA IF THEY HAD NOT BEEN INVENTED AND MADE HERE FIRST. IS BD HIRING H-1B WORKERS YET TO FILL THE JOBS THAT WE AMERICANS ARE APPARENTLY NOT CAPABLE OF DOING?

“If you are living in Asia and purchase an Audi A4 or A6 it is being made in China and some of the Euro luxury manufacturers are preparing to export their first
Chinese-made cars.”

BD CEO SEEMS TO BE SAYING THAT SINCE EVERYONE ELSE IS CORRUPT, GREEDY AND WOULD KILL THEIR MOTHERS TO GET AHEAD, I WILL TOO.

“they take great pride in their
work; and are capable of great things. “

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAND THEM THE KEYS TO THE FACTORY AND PAY THEM TO LEARN YOUR JOB

“The question simply comes down to
management and ownership and the vision and commitment of those in
charge.”


TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN. TO PARAPHRASE HEIDI KLUM: “YOU (AMERICANS) ARE OUT!”

“BD Asia shares BD's ethos, commitment to high quality, and they share
our passion for the life-defining activity of climbing. It is truly the
world's universal Esperanto a language we all not only speak but feel.
BD is a very global brand just like climbing and skiing are global
endeavors. For that matter, some of our fastest sales growth has been in
China and Asia as a middle class emerges and has time to explore the
beauty and challenge of Asia's crags and mountains.”

WILL CHINAS MIDDLE CLASS BE PAYING THE SAME $60 TO $110 A CAM THAT US CLIMBERS PAY? OR WILL THE PRICE OF BD CAMS DROP ACROSS THE BOARD, SAY 30-40%?

“The market place
feels much like the U.S. felt like in the very late 60s and early 70s.”

BD CEO INVOKING FEEL-GOOD MEMORIES OF YVON CHOUINARD INVENTING AND MAKING CLIMBING GEAR IN VENTURA, CA.

“BD is committed to being global and to being an intimate and
contributing member of each climbing/ski community that we are a part
of. That is true in Europe as well.

So, this is not about shutting down BD SLC as a manufacturing facility.”


COME SEE THE NEW BD THEME PARK, AND WATCH OLD CLIMBING HIPPIES FORGE PITONS ON A REAL ANVIL WHILE 747’S STREAM INTO THE AIRPORT WITH THE ACTUAL GEAR.

“to the contrary we have expanded our SLC facility this past year by 50
employees and we are fully maxed out, even with two full shifts.”

HOW MUCH DID THE NEW FACTORY IN CHINA COST?:

“…Over the past year we have been assembling a large percentage of our ice
tools at BD China. Technical tools are done at both facilities currently
though they may shift fully to BD Asia… In addition, we are assembling
ATCs there and plan to slowly shift C3s there over time as well as some
other products.”

TRANSLATION: BD’S US MANUFACTURING IS DEAD MEAT.

“Many products will remain here while some will be done
at both facilities in future years. It is a work-in-process. It's
"generally" labor intensive assembly that is done at BD China.”

TYPING PRESS RELEASES HOWEVER, WILL STILL BE DONE IN SLC BY AMERICAN INTERNS.

“ Quality
assurance is performed both in Salt Lake City and Asia by BD employees.
Regardless, it's still BD, and still being made by BD.

..As stated~WBD is proud to have created our own ISO-certified, owned
staffed, managed and trained operation in Asia. “

FOR HOW LONG?


”Our customers are the
big beneficiaries here.”

THE UNIVERSAL CORPORATE LIE: WAL MART SPEWS THIS OUT IN THEIR TV ADS WHEN THEY TELL EVERYONE HOW MUCH MONEY THEY’VE SAVED BY SHOPPING THERE, EVEN AS THEY DESTROY US COMMUNITIES MANUFACTURING CAPABILITY BY OUT-SOURCING EVERYTHING AND PAYING WAGES THAT ONLY ALLOW ONE TO AFFORD MADE IN CHINA CRAP.

“Thanks for the opportunity to state the facts…”



SPIN THE FACTS.

THE EMPLOYEE OWNERS OF BLACK DIAMOND EQUIPMENT




Peter Metcalf

CEO/Co-Founder

Eastvillage, that was a brilliant, incisive post.

Well said East Village. I can find American made cams somewhere and support none sell out companies with my hard earned money. It reminds me of Osprey packs, cool company I wanted to back and I bought several packs from them all hand made in Dolores, Colorado. As soon as they sold out to China it was time to find a new company.

Not good, not good at all. I've had the misfortune of being laid off twice because of outsourcing to countries such as India, China, and Mexico. Yes, I work in the tech industry, which means whenever I call ORACLE support I speak with someone in India over a crackling connection.

Whatever your political views are, whatever your thoughts are of outsourcing to foreign countries consist of, remember this: IT IS HAPPENING AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN AND THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT EXCEPT STOP SUPPORTING COMPANIES WHO MANUFACTURE PRODUCTS OVERSEAS. PERIOD.

It is truly sad that Black Diamond is doing this.

TO ALL YOU FOLKS THAT HAVE DECIDED TO SIDE AGAINST BD:

I am going to the creek in a couple of weeks and I will take all your camalots off your hands (you don't want that commie red shit on your rack, you're fuckin' americans dammit!). So just pm me and we'll figure out a time and a place where I can take those awful pieces off your hands. Don't worry I will dispose of them responsibly.

Yeah, and leave your Aliens, too!

Today you are competing against everyone else in the world who can perform your job. The marketplace, at the same time, is becoming hyper lean and competitive.

Eastvillage's rant sounds like it came from someone who installs the cam springs. Approximately 6 billion people on this planet can do that job.

I work in high tech as well and have survived dozens of layoffs, basically because I've invested a lot of time and energy in my education and career development. Layoffs can strike anyone, but the typical victims are generally predictable.

J