Radcliffe - of course. . . but I fail to see your point.

Kevin - get a grip on reality dude. Take a look at HISTORY. Do you know what history is? If not, begin by looking up the word.
I'm not talking about homeless bullshit, I'm talking about history of policy and actual atrocity.

BTW, I don't much care about the Chinese form of politics, or their ethics or policies. . . . I care about America - and the jobs lost, et al.

KEVIN WROTE:
'Maybe do some research on homelessness, a condition not seen in Canada and most of the European Nation. Here we are the richest nation in the world with an estimated 10% of our population either homeless or headed that way.'
KEVIN- I THINK THAT 10% IS ABOUT RIGHT - WE LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY WHERE YOU MAKE YOUR OWN FINANCIAL DECISIONS - AMONGST ANY GROUP OF FREE PEOPLE, YOU'LL HAVE A HAND-FULL WHO WOULD RATHER LIVE LIKE A DIRTBALL RATHER THAN WORK THEIR ASS OFF.

'It is easy for us to mention all the atrocities that China has committed. I am sure most Europeans could double the number for the US. We just don't hear that part of the news...The part that our government doesn't want us to hear.

Stop being a puppet and try free thought, kill your TV and pick up a book. Or don't and continue to live in a state of denial. There are reasons that the US is hated by most of the rest of the world. Funny that considering we have the "best human rights policies"... '

HAVEN'T HAD A TV IN THE HOUSE FOR 8 YEARS. I GET ENOUGH LEFTIST MIND-GOO FROM NPR THANK-YOU. I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE US IS HATED BY THE FREE-MEDIA IN THE WORLD / WHO HAPPEN TO BE MOSTLY LEFTIST-SOCIALISTS. I ALSO DO NOT HAVE A SINGLE BUMPER STICKER ON MY VEHICLE.

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(edit: Off topic babble deleted)

Fiedler - Again, I don't care about China. . . I care about America.

This conversation has become convoluted due to some trying to make this into an issue whose context isn't important. HISTORY and POLICY and which country is the most horrific.
Try to stick with the issue here - BD has sent its homegrown facilities to China to save a few dollars for their personal fuckin salaries!

Glime - Guantanamo Bay? What are you kiddin me man!! Oh yes, that's horrible - 4 squares, 5 prayers, athletics and all the fresh water you can drink.
We have commited atrocities in the past, but grown and progressed. . . unlike many I can think of. That was my glaringly obvious point. We attempt to learn and progress, and do a good job at it.

Tavis - Switzerland? Dude, that is one pathetic comparison. And being that the Swiss history is pretty damn extensive, I'd be willing to investigate and argue that point. Remember, America hasn't been here for too long. And again, talking history here man.

Kevin, dude. . . . We've only been around for a few hundred years! You want to "look back" 50 or 100 years? Shit man, who do you think started the slave trade/traffic? Try looking back several hundred years, and then post your comments. Believe me, I have a small library of history books, not just college text.
America has grown and prospered and helped out more people within it's short existence, than any other country, to certainly include Switzerland! So get off your bashing trip and face the facts - and you'll have to look a little deeper than 100 years.

Would love to continue but have to get back to work. . . .
Later -

but this thread has certainly drawn out the village-people who visit this site and has once again provided a sounding board to denounce the US

why not? it's entertaining, and you can do it here w/out fear of being popped in the back of the head!

Michael, for the record I don't hate America, but I do think we have fallen short of our standards lately. Neither do I endorse or condone the atrocities that other countries have committed. All I am saying is that people need to question both the source and content of the things they hold true, unless they want to come across as complete morons.

Anyways back to the subject at hand. I will buy your C4's from you if you cannot stand to use (EDIT: Cams made in China). Personally I will trust in Black Diamond until they give me a reason not to. I inspect every cam I receive and am satisfied with the quality of their gear. If a local company starts producing a comparable product I will check them out as well. I try to buy local, but considering that cams are a product that should last for 20+ years I do not think it is as important as buying local produce.

(edit: off topic babble deleted)

All I can say is Wow. Listening to some of you is scary.

did the FONT thing to differentiate our quotes- sorry man, but i work in CAPS alot too w/ my job.

not sure how seriously i want to be taken- but i appreciate that some of what i said sounded well thought-out. thanks!

as far as homelessness goes, there are support structures to provide them ASSISTANCE to change their lives and become self-supportive. When Jr. grows old enough to ditch his loser dad, he'll be thankful that he lives in a free society where he can work hard, be successful, and not fall into the same traps his daddy did.

BrettPierce
7 minutes ago

Cpt. E wrote:
but this thread has certainly drawn out the village-people who visit this site and has once again provided a sounding board to denounce the US why not? it's entertaining, and you can do it here w/out fear of being popped in the back of the head!



What is wrong with pointing out areas in which the US can improve? Is it more American to pretend that we are perfect? It seems that if anyone doesn't agree with you, then they are not patriotic Americans.

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I always liked Lennon and Marx. John Lennon wrote some purty songs, and groucho was funny. What I really find hilarious is that one of Amercias big chants is to "Stop the Spread of Communism" and most of what we buy is manufactured in a communist county. Americans are the least informed most entertained people in the world. Fifty percent of us cannot get out of our indented couch's to go vote! I guess this 50% is watching Oprah. What's worse is that we do not even care about each other. I could be myopic in this statement. Corporations use to put their workers welfare first. Now it seems many corporations will throw anyone under the bus for a buck. I know this has happened at HP. Most of my neighbors work there and this is their sentiments. It seems like our country's moral stance is either abortion or gay marriage and ethics like in climbing, can be assigned to bar stools. What about some morals towards each other. How about some ethics in business. It seems that pure capitalism is not working as well as the founding fathers planned. Exxon made how many billions of dollars last quarter? Enron took the money and ran. Even our Attorney General is corrupt. It will be interesting to see what becomes of our country.

Gee I feel better!

The only thing I can say about BD going to China is that if one of their pieces made in China ever fails due to an manufacturing error, they might as well close the doors to their gear division. It seems that no one is really sure they are even making this move and look at all the hubbub. Think what the witch hunt will be like if a piece fails.

Have a nice day everyone.

Man, everyone is an armchair expert on business ethics in country and out. Ethics are in the eye of the management. If the company is run by bad people the ethics of that business will be as lousy as legally possible (if not worse). If the company is run by good people the ethics will be better. The locale of the business is trivial! It's the ownership/management that makes it good or bad. Slash and burn business ethics exist here, there, and everywhere. Just b/c a society has affluence doesn't necessarily mean it has a conscience (I have worked for some lousy folks in this country), it just means they are better at portraying it.

Bubb - Spending a few hours with an ACLU attorney made you an expert on who is at Gitmo, what there history and intentions were/are? If there was a group out there whose ethics are questionable, it'd be the ACLU.

Ethics in business. . . the point exactly.