"Cave Rock - Climbers, Courts, and a Washoe Sacred Place"

Apologies if this was posted before, a new review of the access dispute concerning Cave Rock in Tahoe has been published. In my opinion, it provides a well-balanced review of the of all sides in the issue and provides some insight on how public land access disputes are addressed in the courts.

"Cave Rock - Climbers, Courts, and a Washoe Sacred Place", Makley and Makley, University of Nevada Press, 2010

Matt Seefeldt

Hey, Matt: Haven't read that piece, but the whole story makes me so frustrated. I see it mostly as a chance for the Natives to give some grief to the White Man. "Sacred Place," really? With FOUR lanes of very busy highway blasting straight through? The time to save that place had long since passed. Besides, I understand that Dan Osman really cleaned it up and made it a decent place to hang out. I guess there was a lot of garbage, broken glass, the usual suspects for "sacred places." I've never climbed hard enough to bother visiting, but the Native stance on this one is pretty bogus, especially since there didn't seem to be any genuine attempt at compromise, like no climbing during certain times when Natives might want to do ceremonies, with that wonderful back drop of roaring, stinking highway traffic below.

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It is, should say was, clearly a shrine to beerdrinking and trash dumping. Then that destroyer of all things sacred, Mr. Osmond came along and gave the place a dam nice scrubbing, and the place became popular with the "WHITE DEVILS". Then the "Nature Loving, Native Americans" (well at least 10 of em) demanded a return of their "Sacred Stone" and FASTER than you can say Forrest Service the placed was closed to all climbers.

Well balanced my ass.

Guy and Bad,

I don't want to turn this into a political debate because everyone is obviously entitled to their own view. Your concern about the fact that it was trashed prior to Dan cleaning it up is definitely a good point and I see that as a flaw in the Washoe's intentions. On the flip side, no one asked them on their thoughts of a highway getting built through the middle of their center for healing. However, as a observer from the distance on this issue and one who just casually saw the headlines over the past ten years, I found this book interesting from the standpoint of what goes into land disputes. As with most difficult problems, there is a lot of grey that goes into 1) understanding the issue initially and 2) solving them and providing a resolution. The key in this case is that Cave Rock was deemed worthy of "National Historical Place" status. This differentiated it from classic access issues on public lands in a religious context (which falls under the Establishment Clause). Since the Lake Tahoe land management (I forget their official name right now) had in their charter that cultural importance trumped recreational interest, the cultural side one out.

I wanted to post this so people could easily read-up on the details on how these issues get resolved if they are so interested.

Matt

As a former East Shore resident, I would like to chip in a couple cents worth. We lived just down the highway when the issue started making news in about '95. The point about the tunnels going through the rock is obvious to anyone who has seen it. Less obvious until you climb there is the quality of the climbing. My experience at Cave was chossy rock, highway noise and a rather trashy feel, in general. When the news went around that the Washoe didn't like people climbing on it, I was fine with it-there is lots of far better climbing in the vicinity. I do concede that it is unique in its' appeal on a sunny winter day. At the time, it occurred to me that the climbers fighting the closure should choose their battles more carefully. While I believe that closing a place like Devels' Tower completely to climbing would justify a judicial fight to the death, Cave Rock doesn't seem worth the ill will engendered among the opposition.

Todd Graham wrote:Joe -- I climbed at Cave for nearly 10 years in the 90s. It was an amazing place to climb ... a true gem of a climbing resource. After Dano cleaned up the floor there was no trash ... it was clean and squared away. This closure was an FU by the government and the tribe. Nothing more nothing less. And any climber who thinks this closure was OK better realize that this same rationale could be used all over the US to close climbing areas. Yosemite -- think that had any special significance to the Indians?

Maybe we should band together and take over a bird-watching outpost until we get Cave Rock back, huh?

Todd Graham wrote:This closure was an FU by the government and the tribe. Nothing more nothing less.

Now you can claim it was a guberment FU, but it wasn't a FU on the tribe's part.

Todd Graham wrote:And any climber who thinks this closure was OK better realize that this same rationale could be used all over the US to close climbing areas.

Absolutely.

Todd Graham wrote:Yosemite -- think that had any special significance to the Indians?

It's not a matter of whether it has 'significance' so much as if there are direct remnants of the Valley Miwok (or if the Ahwahneechee weren't currently declared 'extinct' [whether they are or not]) such that they either could legitimately attempt to 'claim' the Valley as historical sovereign lands.

Healyje wrote: Now you can claim it was a guberment FU, but it wasn't a FU on the tribe's part. Absolutely. It's not a matter of whether it has 'significance' so much as if there are direct remnants of the Valley Miwok (or if the Ahwahneechee weren't currently declared 'extinct' [whether they are or not]) such that they either could legitimately attempt to 'claim' the Valley as historical sovereign lands.

Then the "Royal Arches Casino" could open up at the base of the falls.

Healyje wrote: Now you can claim it was a guberment FU, but it wasn't a FU on the tribe's part.

Any why would the tribe not be giving you the F-U? The greatest liberal fantasy is that tribal leaders can be dealt with through kindness, logic, and are our friends. In fact, they have been fucked in the ass so many times that they are permanently pissed, and they would still, hundreds of years later, like to see your ass go back to the old world! However, we can agree on the rest:

Joe Huggins wrote: My experience at Cave was chossy rock, highway noise and a rather trashy feel, in general. When the news went around that the Washoe didn't like people climbing on it, I was fine with it-there is lots of far better climbing in the vicinity. I do concede that it is unique in its' appeal on a sunny winter day. At the time, it occurred to me that the climbers fighting the closure should choose their battles more carefully..

It occurs to me that your thinking is a real problem. Because you cannot fully appreciate this place due to inferior climbing skills, you think that another place where you can climb is a better place to make a statement. But that is idiocy.

We live in a common law system where one ruling dictates the fate of others, it's called precedent. The Cave Rock ruling has already set a precedent. The precedent was very clear, when a indigenous tribe claims an area, they get it.

A few years ago a very similar local crag got shut down. The access fund lawyer who showed up acted like a total wimp, not wanting to lose again, as she admitted she was a loser on the cave rock case in the past and didn't want to waste her energy; and this was a national recreation site, and not a historical place as mentioned before. The wimpy lawyer admitted and discussed this little fact for a brief minute before walking away forever.

This whole dang nation was once a sacred place, including where your f'in house is, and if you give an inch, a mile will be taken.I don't blame the local tribes, if I was an Tribal leader I would be doing the same thing. But you have to understand that we live in a common law system, and you cannot just bend over backwards over access issues just because you don't care about the access to that particular crag, or the crag you do care about could be put in jeopardy as well!

Seriously nah wrote: Any why would the tribe not be giving you the F-U? The greatest liberal fantasy is that tribal leaders can be dealt with through kindness, logic, and are our friends. In fact, they have been fucked in the ass so many times that they are permanently pissed, and they would still, hundreds of years later, like to see your ass go back to the old world!

Well, as someone married into the Colville Federated Tribes, the best way I can explain it is that - when it comes to places indians consider sacred - the condition of the site (trash, graffiti, bolts, etc), modern impacts on the site (such as freeway tunnels), and fucking/not fucking the public are all pretty much irrelevant - the only thing that matters is the fact that it is considered sacred and so efforts will be made to have the site respected in accordance with their beliefs to every degree possible.

The real issue for all climbers out there is this -- if you don't fight hard ... with the best legal counsel you can buy -- then your climbing areas are going to be shut down ... whether its because a tribe wants you out, or there is an "endangered" newly-found turd beetle at the crag, whatever. Climbers are not a "protected class" of outdoor users -- to the contrary. We are considered rebels, crazy, etc. So ... either you fight, or be bulldozed over as the climbers at Cave were.

Healyje wrote: fucking/not fucking the public are all pretty much irrelevant - the only thing that matters is the fact that it is considered sacred and so efforts will be made to have the site respected in accordance with their beliefs to every degree possible.

Your statement is predicated on the idea that there is an area in the USA that was not sacred, which is not true, the entire nation at one point was considered sacred, and every Indian I know would like the entire nation returned, not just a miserable hole next to a fucked up highway. That was just low hanging fruit.

The only thing that matters is that the tribes give a little fucking now and then when they can, and all sorts of beliefs are made up to facilitate this little fucking. We as a user group need to recognize this and fight against it, as every fucking cave, face, and boulder could fall to the same justified fuckery.

Joe ... Cave was the best steep summer climbing in the Sierra. Hands down. The choss was gone by '93. The loss of this place was a serious blow to the climbing community... as someone who climbed there nearly every weekend for years. It was a regular stop for some of the best climbers in the world... from Sharma to Campbell. My view ... again ... is ... fight like hell for our resources. Every. Single. Time.

Trying to read the book now.

Very irritating. Strongly biased in favor of the Washoe. Who absolutely refused any compromise.

The authors have minimal understanding of climbing. And even less respect for it.

I do find myself wondering what Cave Rock is like now. Has it reverted to broken beer bottles and used diapers?

Again ... so sad for the closure of this great crag. And for what? What was gained?

Finally finished the book. Not long, just had to pause to let my blood pressure come down fairly frequently.

If the authors are to be believed, (which is somewhat questionable since they seem to take anything said by the Washoe at face value) Cave Rock was visited only by healers/shamans and was avoided by other tribe members. The last known shaman died in 1965, so it's no surprise that the site wasn't "kept up."
Exactly what real value it holds for the Washoe in the modern world seems limited. But I'm not them.

The Access Fund made a strong argument that stopping climbing for the Washoe's religious beliefs was unconstitutional. Unfortunately Cave Rock had been designated (or determined eligible for) the National Register of Historic Places for cultural reasons.

So when the Final Environmental Impact Statement was issued, the Forest Supervisor responsible ruled that preserving a historic site was more important than recreational use. And the legal challenges went nowhere since the appropriate process was followed and the ostensible rationale wasn't religious.

But really, the entire Historic site designation just seems like a way to disguise the fact that the reason the Washoe wanted climbing banned was basically religious.

Mark E Dixon wrote:Exactly what real value it holds for the Washoe in the modern world seems limited. But I'm not them.

The 'modern world' really doesn't enter into it, nor does the condition of the site - more just one of those just is sort of deals.

Mark E Dixon wrote:But really, the entire Historic site designation just seems like a way to disguise the fact that the reason the Washoe wanted climbing banned was basically religious.

Well, six thousand years of cultural heritage as a holy site could be misconstrued as 'historic' by some, but after the genocide that came with the gold rush, one does have to admit that 'few' is a pretty small number these days.