The Nut Tree Boulders

The rock out here does require that you "know" how to pull on holds that may be suspect on many of the taller problems. Reason being that I put them up from the ground cleaning as I went. When I was that far off the ground, minimal cleaning was happening :)

I hope people are being smart about the landings. I did the problems w/o needing to remove every boulder from the base. It simply isn't necessary with crashpads. I spent about a month talking with the land manager in 2000 making sure bouldering was acceptable and one of his concerns was people making major alterations aka the bordering small "walls" of rocks. I explained to him that they were in order to keep the cows out from the base of the boulders and creating massive muck holes when muddy and he understood, but I don't think he would be all the happy to see some of the boulders underneath landings dug up aka Suburban Hellholes landing for example.

There are over 300 established problems that cover the entire two hillsides. I have a full comprehensive guide already drafted, I just need to run it to the printers. Its one of those, "OK I'll do it now" but then end up adding new problems and then updating then repeating the cycle. It will be out by the end of the year though for sure.

Also, Vacaville can hardly be called a surbuban shithole. The city itself has got that name from Bay Area snobs who don't realize that Vacaville represents pretty much what you will find anywhere else in the Bay and beyond. Or is Oakland and San Jose so much better, lol! The city itself has its charm but you have to know where to go and venture beyond 4 blocks from the freeway to find it. That may be asking a little much of people who want their hand held and coddled aka Bay Area Snobs. Not saying everyone from the Bay Area is this way, just a large portion of them. Prove me wrong and do the leg work for yourself then make comments.

For a cool experience, hike up to the Mother Boulder and bring a honey. Sit and watch the sun go down to the west over the hills and enjoy some cool views before getting your freak on :)

Roughster

Calling Vacaville a shithole is only my opinion, something that Roughster and I (obviously) don't agree on. Perhaps you will like the view of the modern upper-middle class master-planned community that sits below the Vacaville boulders.

Well Aron, for a website who panders for others to contribute, calling peoples homes a "shit hole" is rather short sighted.

Furthermore, shall we talk about the smell of urine and shit at Indian and Mortar rocks? How about the used condoms? Do people from Vacaville actively seek local climbing websites to proclaim this? I'm sorry you have to "endure" the view of "upper middle class" homes while bouldering out here. Never mind that is those sample people you are slandering that have given you the ability to climb there by actively voting and pressuring local government to protect the Open Space Districts and guarentee public access. Tell me what happened to the Bay Areas open spaces? Oh yeah, they were all privatized and had mansion built on them.

Yeah I live in Vacaville and am proud of it. Remember how at The Grotto I was telling you guys about lots of cool local areas you should check out? Its people like you who make me regret being that way.

Quote, "Comments: really, i just guessed the first ascent info to get your attention... it worked! thanks!"

Seriously, if that is your attitude about info, this will be the last contribution or comment I make to the site and I will be sure to tell others about your guys' take on local climbing. I personally think you guys are a poor representation of the "Climbing_area_.com" franchise to be honest.

Your site should be working in conjunction with local developers, not trying to pass out bad beta and piss people off, which is really what this site does best.

Bad beta? Find some bad beta on this site and point it out... it won't be easy, but if you do, we'll correct it immediately and thank you for the heads-up. Then open up any guidebook comprising any region and repeat that task... (find the author, tell him/her about it and you might get to pay $25 in a few years for the correct beta in the next edition).

The beauty of climbing ANYWHERE.com is that our beta can be updated . In writing 'Chris Summit?' in the first ascent information on some Vacaville routes I actively ENGAGED a local developer (one who has happilly contributed to the site).

Why are you upset? The first ascent information is correct now after one of the people who developed the area chimed in.

The website is designed so that everyone can contribute. If the developers felt like contributing their accomplishments, we wouldn't have this problem to begin with. If climbingbayarea.com is the worst of any climbing_area.com sites its because bay area developers haven't been forthcoming with info. This fact disappoints us, but alas, we're not running the site to make profit, so its underachievment is really as big of a loss to the public as it is to us.

I'm going to comment on both Brian's and Aaron's comments.

Brian is right: what makes this so great is that we can change the information, and while sometimes we could do our homework a little more, often times information is posted that may not be 100% accurate.Usually, this information is on the site less than a week, until someone pipes up and says how we screwed up. Then it gets changed. Brian's point is essentially correct: try doing that with a guidebook. In a guidebook you give revision after revision to folks and friends, but in the end there is a final publishing date, and any other informaiton needs to be added as a suppliment, or wait for the next revision. Sites like sonorapassclimbing.com have taken an excellent approach, which is to write a book, and then add supplimental information via a website. Tragically, this is one hell of a lot of work, and many others may not want to do this.

If you take into consideration my time, Brian's time, and the other 150 odd people who have contributed directly or indirectly to the site, I've yet to make a CENT off the site. I got a sponsor (see above left), who gives me discounted merchandise occasionally, but I find deals that are better elsewhere more often than not. I've also got a guide sponsor who gives me a cut ( though I haven't seen anything yet, and I'm not really very concerned about it)

As for pissing poeple off, when I do this, I apologize. In fact, I've apologized to both Brian and Chris on many occasions for things that I've written. I consider both of them my friends, and enjoy climbing with both of them. I can't think of too many people that I don't enjoy climbing with.

I've apologized to Aaron more than ANYONE else in regards to things that I've written. However, this doesn't seem to do anything but piss him off more. And to that... What else can I do? Pay him for his wisdom and beta? If it's regarding something that I know that he knows about more than anyone else, I do ask him. But - often times posting to this site gets comments back faster even than an email.

If there are routes unposted to the site on rocks, ADD them. It's not hard. No you're not getting paid, but neither am I (see above.) If I'd have climbed them myself, I would add them. If information on a route is incorrect, I can change it. I you're a frequent enough contributor to the site, and you're someone I trust, I'll let you change it yourself.

If this is the worst climbing site for the bay area, don't use it. HHHMMMMMMMM.... You still do! And so do nearly 2,000 other people every week. For free. And they're able to tell you and I just how full of shit we are. For free. That's what makes the internet better than a book.I think I get 100 postive comments about the site for every constructive criticisim,, and questions about climbing in the area all the time.

The negative feedback I've recieved that wasn't constructive has come from ONE source, and one source alone. Perhaps others will join him in his negativity, and prehaps they won't. Attempting to give others useful information is the goal of the site, and while it can't occur 100% of the time, I honestly believe that this site is useful to 99.9% of people using it.

You want a comment about the negativity, easy enough:

Bad beta, false information, self importance, laying claim to others work, , that will at least get you started.

Bad Beta/False Info: The fact these are called the "Vacaville Boulders" is a good example. Do you know they have been called the Nut Tree Boulders since the 80's? Randomly assigning FA's? Assigning yourself FA's on routes that you add? That all is bad beta and gives people the false impression you are actually contributing to local climbing. Ask yourself Quiters, are you contributing?

More Bad Beta/False Information: Auburn doesn't have granite, PERIOD, as I explained to you earlier. Yet miraculously it still there. Animal Style is not a "presumed 12c", it has been sent twice that I know of. Once again, I relayed that info too. Not updated. Just examples, there are plenty others.

Self Importance: Besides the Self-FA's comment listed above, how about hitting the page only to find the "Brother Where Art Thou?" Boulder at The Nut Tree Boulders. And then too make things even better, you say "The name *MIGHT* be wrong" LOL! "Might?"

Or how about the shithole comments? You want to blast Vacaville as a city when it is no different than 99% of California if not better. You want to talk about shitholes? Pick any of the Bay Area crags and literally there you have it, shitholes.

Laying Claim to Other's Work: As mentioned previously with the "misleading" FA entries, you also have lovely little statements like, "I will not post directions at this time. If you would like directions, please email me using the link off my name above, and I will give you directions from where you arecoming from." Doesn't that kind of give people the wrong impression that you have actually done something positive out there, instead of taking something given out of good will (my Auburn topo) and paste it on your website?

As I mentioned earlier in a comment, that day at the Grotto, I offered the topo to you and others, and continue to do so, out of good will and hopes that people can find somewhere new to climb and enjoy. I don't expect to log on to your site and see the beta down to a "T" off the topo after I asked it not be hosted, I asked you to take down directions, and you did reluctantly after a few months (and that was on request by the AF).

Maybe this is a case of things got off on a bad foot (Auburn) but then the pattern still shows up, now (Vacaville Boulders) and yet you want me to contribute?

What you want to go to my new crag and call it "Quiter's Wall" This 400 foot cliff has many multipitch sport routes on it. We climbed "Quiter's Revenge" (FA: Aron Quiter) on the 1st day. Email me for directions to my new crag!

Come on. You know who the primary developers are for each area, talk to them about the areas and you most likely would get people to contribute. If you would have dropped me an email and asked, "Hey thinking about doing a section on the boulders in Vacaville, care to help out?" I probably would have said yes, wrote you an intro and a sampler piece. Instead I see "shithole" comments, Wrong FA info, Mislabelled Boulders, Mislabeled Problems, etc... It really doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy about contributing.

And I won't. I do frequent the site in the morbid sense of watching an automobile accident. Its ugly, but kinda sick and fun to watch. I admit to be addicted to climbing, hence the 100+ new sport routes that Dave and I have put up over the last year. Will you be getting that info? Only if you plagerize it from other sources.

Ah! Finally some criticism with suggestions! All the suggestions have been updated.

i really hate to type + type + blab on + on about climbing and politics and so on and especially about clmbing at vacaville (yawn..old news) but i noticed my name popped up a couple times so i figured i should pipe up and give ya'll my 2 cents worth. - for free even! ..?

• because climbing info can be so easily put on and taken off of the internet it seems like it sometimes gets put on in a hasty, non chalant manner which results in errors. it reminds me of rap bolting with a power drill compared to hand drilling on lead which would take more of a thought out approach - like a guidebook.

oh yeah i forgot - lets go climbing on some rocks eh?hope to see ya all at the crags soon! give me a ring whenever you want to come up norte -bring a forty!

So, who's got the beta on the Mother Boulder???

Alot of the F.A. squabble about this place I find to be total ego BS...along with some of the inflated rateings of some of the problems.

Truth be told. Most of the more obvious aretes, roofs and traverses were done in the early 80's by guys who walked up, climbed and walked away. I suggest you all do the same.

BTW, who put the bolts on top of the Hidden and Mother Boulders. For previewing assumed FA's I'm guessing....Lame. They've been chopped (I chopped them) as they should be. Poor style, shame on you.

I hadn't read this comment line in a while, and now that I'm a few years wiser (not wise!!!), I thought I'd add to this.

The more people I talk to about climbing in the area, the more I've got to agree with Salamanizer. While we think that things we're doing are first ascents just because we've cleaned all the moss, lichen, graffiti off of something, does NOT make something a first ascent. Nor does it make you the developer of an area.

Many folks back in the day (80's... even 30's and 40's!) climbed routes and rocks in the area just to go out and climb. They didn't need the ego of telling everyone about the places they've been, and unless it was something spectacular, often didn't even tell anyone. Finding a new area is great, and telling other people about it is fine, but why publish someone about an area if you're not willing to tell them where it is?

They just climbed for the sake of climbing... nothing more nothing less.

Publishing routes on the internet, and todays excellent new climbing books make areas more accessable for everyone, but that's not what climbing is about... Climbing is about doing something fun and athletic in the most beautiful places on the planet.

I think there needs to be some clarification around this topic as the last few (most recent) comments illustrate, somewhere along the way the message trying to be delivered got lost.

My exception to the comments started with Vacaville being called a shithole and expanded into the FA info. But bygones are bygones, so lets let that sleeping dog lie, but it is interesting that the comment was edited out of the description, so now much of what I replied a few years ago is completely devoid of context.

As it is related to ego and FA. I don't see it that way at all. Aron/Brian if you guys had actually developed, you would know that it isn't about spraying your name on the web or print, but having someone blatantly come in and assume credit for your efforts is very frustrating. It is one thing to not list an FA, and something totally different to list something that is false.

In the case of the Nut Tree boulders. Certainly many of the obvious problems were done by earlier generations. Charlie Wyatt, who I work with, has shared many stories with about the exploits of the 80s, and early 90s. In addition, once you have developed enough routes, as Salamanzer can attest to, you KNOW when you're on rock that has been developed before or not. There is no questions that a lot of the bigger / cleaner boulders were the site of earlier development, but much of the Nut Tree boulders, was, and is still, completely unknown to everyone except the few people I have shown around. Most people do not have the adventurous spirit to hike the entire hillside canvasing back and forth up and over ridges and hills to *make sure* they know whats out there as opposed to go straight for what they can see from the road. There are almost 400 problems out there now and the majority of those aren't on boulders that are "obvious" and most took cleaning to make them climbable in any state aka there was rock that crumbled off (often in VERY large blocks) on touch, let alone pulling for climbing.

And finally, coffee almost done so I'll stop soon :) , Salamanzer you are way off base with those bolts. They were installed before I came to Vacaville and I can vouch for the development of the Hidden Boulder that neither Chris, I, or Sean used TRs when we developed the highball lines. Lame...is assuming you know who/why put those bolts there, and lamer still is chopping them when you really have no ethical reasoning to do so. As a fellow FA'ist, I would hope you have a little more courtesy to find out the story behind something before acting. I suggest you talk to Charlie if you want to find out who put those bolts there and why.

I've been getting back out on the boulders lately with temps starting to cool down, but you won't see me just hanging out at the usual boulders. I'll be out not-developing not-new problems on not-obvious boulders, which are not-cleaned, and not-having TR bolts on top.

The description and the directions still contain the patchouli like stink of snide far left elitism. Which is too bad, because this is a fine bouldering area.