By Kaleb McCallson
From Tooele
Jul 8, 2012
| I'm looking for anyone who is certified. I have more than enough gear but have just yet learned about all the rules and now they won't let me take the boys climbing. | 
FLAG |
By BIG Climber
From Irvine, CA
Jul 9, 2012
| I am in the middle of my certification right now. There is a lot of emphasis on gear history and log books. Basically, if the gear does't neet the minimum BSA requiremnts (2012 requirements of 10.5 mm ropes, 17.5 kN webbing for example) and doesn't have complete log books from date of purchase then the gear can't be used. If you find a BSA Climbing Lead Instructor, they will have all that information and will probably have access to gear to meet your needs. Like everything else in BSA, there are a ton of rules. |
FLAG |
By Andrew Gram
Administrator
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jul 9, 2012
| Going climbing in Moab at that time is an excellent way to demonstrate the effects of heat stroke for your boys. |
FLAG |
By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jul 9, 2012
| Andrew Gram wrote: Going climbing in Moab at that time is an excellent way to demonstrate the effects of heat stroke for your boys.
I thought this might have been Jeff Batten at first, but it can't be unless he is trolling from the Great Beyond. |
FLAG |
By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Jul 9, 2012
| BIG Climber wrote: Basically, if the gear does't neet the minimum BSA requiremnts (2012 requirements of 10.5 mm ropes, 17.5 kN webbing for example) and doesn't have complete log books from date of purchase then the gear can't be used.
Incorrect.
The ONLY thing a troop/crew has to follow are the 8 rules of "Climb On Safely", which has no specifications on gear other than it needs to be designed for climbing (not boat anchor rope, bicycle helmets, etc.).
"Topping Out" is BSA's recommended guidelines for climbing, not a rule book.
Only district or council activities (like Camporee's or summer camps) need to follow the rules laid out in the BSA Climbing Standards.
Hope that clears things up. |
FLAG |
By Kaleb McCallson
From Tooele
Jul 9, 2012
| Thanks guys! You just have to know what time of day and where to climb in Moab this time of year And the weather will be in our favor. |
FLAG |
By BIG Climber
From Irvine, CA
Jul 10, 2012
| Allen Corneau wrote: Incorrect. The ONLY thing a troop/crew has to follow are the 8 rules of "Climb On Safely", which has no specifications on gear other than it needs to be designed for climbing (not boat anchor rope, bicycle helmets, etc.). "Topping Out" is BSA's recommended guidelines for climbing, not a rule book. Only district or council activities (like Camporee's or summer camps) need to follow the rules laid out in the BSA Climbing Standards. Hope that clears things up.
Sorry for the long delay in response, I wanted to consult with our District's Climbing Chairman and Climbing Director before responding. I do believe there can be room for interpretation with these rules, so I highly recommend that you consult with your District’s Climbing Chairman and/or Climbing Director for their interpretation before proceeding.
In the current "Climb on Safely" brochure, that sets the standards for unit climbing / rappelling activities, it states that; "Every instructor must have prior experiences in teaching climbing/rappelling to youth and must agree to adhere to Climb On Safely and the guidelines set in Topping Out". So although Allan is correct that Topping Out is the guide for District and Council level activities any Qualified Instructor you get to go with you would have had to agree to adhere to the same guidelines set out in Topping Out.
What we are really talking about here is if something happened to go wrong at the event, would BSA's insurance protect you or not. When dealing with other people's children, I have found it to be prudent to error on the side of caution.
Have a great time at your event, hot or not I am sure everyone will enjoy it. |
FLAG |
By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jul 11, 2012
| BIG Climber wrote: I am in the middle of my certification right now. There is a lot of emphasis on gear history and log books. Basically, if the gear does't neet the minimum BSA requiremnts (2012 requirements of 10.5 mm ropes, 17.5 kN webbing for example) and doesn't have complete log books from date of purchase then the gear can't be used. If you find a BSA Climbing Lead Instructor, they will have all that information and will probably have access to gear to meet your needs. Like everything else in BSA, there are a ton of rules.
Allen Corneau wrote: Incorrect. The ONLY thing a troop/crew has to follow are the 8 rules of "Climb On Safely", which has no specifications on gear other than it needs to be designed for climbing (not boat anchor rope, bicycle helmets, etc.). "Topping Out" is BSA's recommended guidelines for climbing, not a rule book. Only district or council activities (like Camporee's or summer camps) need to follow the rules laid out in the BSA Climbing Standards. Hope that clears things up.
Having taught just last year the Climbing Cert you guys are both right. You are getting mixed up between a council event (something put on by the council) and going out with a guide. For the council events you have to use all the over the top safety stuff and gear logs.
And I'm pretty sure the webbing is 22 not 17.5 (but my requirement book is not with me to be %100)
And don't forget! Nolead climbing on any BSA outing ;D (dumbest thing ever) |
FLAG |
By DBarton
From CENTENNIAL, CO
Jul 11, 2012
| You can take them climbing at the "ice cream parlor". Should be shaded until afternoon. A few slab by routes there. |
FLAG |
By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Jul 11, 2012
| C Blank wrote: And don't forget! Nolead climbing on any BSA outing ;D (dumbest thing ever)
That is also incorrect.
A unit CAN do lead climbing but they have to receive instruction from someone outside of the BSA.
"Question: Is lead climbing permitted in BSA situations?
Answer: Yes, lead climbing, sport climbing, ice climbing, canyoneering,
mountaineering, caving, and similar activities are allowed for unit climbing
activities as long as the points of Climb On Safely are followed. Qualified
instructors with specific training and skill in instructing these activities are
required. Because all council and district climbing/rappelling activities must
be top-roped, lead climbing, ice climbing, and mountaineering are not
allowed in council and district activities. However, using a top-rope belay
when lead climbing or ice climbing (known as “mock” lead or ice climbing)
is allowed as a council or district climbing activity." |
FLAG |
By RockinOut
From NY, NY
Jul 11, 2012
| C Blank wrote: Having taught just last year the Climbing Cert you guys are both right. You are getting mixed up between a council event (something put on by the council) and going out with a guide. For the council events you have to use all the over the top safety stuff and gear logs. And I'm pretty sure the webbing is 22 not 17.5 (but my requirement book is not with me to be %100) And don't forget! Nolead climbing on any BSA outing ;D (dumbest thing ever)
You can lead climb with the scouts. Our summer camp wall has bolts for the scouts to lead. Also, there is no strength requirement for webbing when climbing with the scouts. The only real requirement is that council events...summer camps etc must use a 10.5mm rope.
Unless theres a rule that your specific council has set but by national standards the rope is the only measured requirement. But then of course you need to use actual climbing helmets, biners, harnesses etc. Im just referring to rope and webbing. |
FLAG |
By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jul 11, 2012
| Allen Corneau wrote: That is also incorrect. A unit CAN do lead climbing but they have to receive instruction from someone outside of the BSA. "Question: Is lead climbing permitted in BSA situations? Answer: Yes, lead climbing, sport climbing, ice climbing, canyoneering, mountaineering, caving, and similar activities are allowed for unit climbing activities as long as the points of Climb On Safely are followed. Qualified instructors with specific training and skill in instructing these activities are required. Because all council and district climbing/rappelling activities must be top-roped, lead climbing, ice climbing, and mountaineering are not allowed in council and district activities. However, using a top-rope belay when lead climbing or ice climbing (known as “mock” lead or ice climbing) is allowed as a council or district climbing activity."
They must have just changed it |
FLAG |
By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Jul 12, 2012
| C Blank wrote: They must have just changed it
Nope, been that way for the past 10+ years. |
FLAG |
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