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Break off bouldering to separate site?
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Nov 12, 2013
Eiger summit
Has any thought been giving to breaking off bouldering to a separate web site like you did for mountain biking? This site could easily be overwhelmed by everyone including their favorite two move wonder on every little pebble in the country. Isn't the name "Mountain Project" a misnomer when you include pebble problems? Brian
From North Kingstown, RI
Joined Sep 27, 2001
647 points
Nov 12, 2013
Mt. Agassiz
With that logic, the majority of climbs on this site should be on a different site. Sure, some climbs are actual multipitch mountain climbs, but it's a small portion of the climbing that actually exists here. Ryan Nevius
From The Range of Light
Joined Dec 29, 2010
783 points
Nov 12, 2013
avatar
Brian wrote:
two move wonder...pebble problems?


I'm not feeling very pejorative about boulder problems myself since I feel like they significantly up my trad and sport climbing game. I see the different types of climbing as symbiotic and I'm glad the blocs exist on this site.
Danie White
From SLC, UT
Joined Oct 14, 2012
201 points
Administrator
Nov 12, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
Sure, it could be construed as a misnomer if you include bouldering. It could also be a misnomer if you throw in single pitch cragging, especially for places in the east like RRG and NRG. They aren't really mountains either. They're essentially continuous cliff lines ranging from 40 to 150 ft, which hold some of the sweetest 4 star single pitch lines in the country. Should we make a singlepitchtradandsport.com?

Bouldering is a big part of climbing, and only getting bigger. It's pretty clear that this site is inclusive to all types of climbing, including bouldering. I would actually like to see more bouldering and detailed topos and maps. Just my opinion.
Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,005 points
Nov 12, 2013
"Scott" at the tunnel
Danie White wrote:
I'm not feeling very pejorative about boulder problems myself since I feel like they significantly up my trad and sport climbing game. I see the different types of climbing as symbiotic and I'm glad the blocs exist on this site.


I would agree with Danie on this. I enjoy all aspects of climbing and I like going to an area like p way and doing a few trad climbs, then hopping on some boulders. It would be inconvenient to have to go to a different site to find info on a boulder that's at the same spot as a trad climb or vise versa.
Taylor J
From new mexico, new england
Joined Nov 30, 2010
363 points
Nov 12, 2013
Moss
Brian wrote:
This site could easily be overwhelmed by everyone including their favorite two move wonder on every little pebble in the country.


But it hasn't and isn't likely to happen. A vast majority just click, tick, downgrade and star away. It is a very small minority who add routes/problems.
Jason Todd
From Cody, WY
Joined Apr 21, 2012
506 points
Nov 12, 2013
Jaws of death V7
Hey Brian, don't hate because you are not strong enough to boulder and your possible fear of soloing is getting in the way :) boulder smith
Joined Oct 16, 2011
148 points
Nov 12, 2013
Potrero Mexico, Sport Climbing Mecca.
:).... then where would Wheel of Life fall? Also, guys riding bikes... are riding bikes.. Trad, Sport, Boulder, Aid.... we are all climbing, the moves are the same, the only difference is the tool used to safeguard the practice. Craig Childre
From Lubbock, Texas
Joined Aug 28, 2006
4,825 points
Nov 12, 2013
My dogs got ups yo!
Maybe you haven't noticed (maybe you have), but there is a feature on every page that allows one to sort the various disciplines of climbing. This will allow you to only view the type of climbing you're interested in Red. jarthur
From Westminster, CO
Joined Mar 23, 2008
322 points
Nov 12, 2013
Puffy jackets and Happy Boulders
For the larger areas I think it works best if the boulder problems are listed under a separate area page, so the routes aren't jumbled together with problems. For example - Yosemite Valley Bouldering and *Joshua Tree Bouldering*.

Keeps it nicely organized without the need for a completely different website.
Bryan G
From Yosemite
Joined Nov 17, 2007
4,664 points
Nov 12, 2013
I don't think I have seen much in the way of 'pebble problems' overwhelming the 'real' problems/interfering with any other style of climbing here.

I feel like most of the boulder action here is ticking off famous lines, and that a lot of us don't bother posting that sweet dyno to the ledge under the shrub, or that V3 to get from my bed to the kitchen without touching the ground... If we had a separate bouldering page for MP, I wonder if that wouldn't just make the 'specialized' page a sort of breeding ground for tedious/contrived lines... You know -- for the sake of having more website content.
Josh Heath
Joined May 12, 2013
2 points
Nov 12, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protec...
Bryan G wrote:
For the larger areas I think it works best if the boulder problems are listed under a separate area page, so the routes aren't jumbled together with problems. For example - Yosemite Valley Bouldering and *Joshua Tree Bouldering*. Keeps it nicely organized without the need for a completely different website.



this would be nice for rumbling bald NC
rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Joined Dec 20, 2009
253 points
Nov 12, 2013
The Donger
Climbing and bouldering are clearly different pursuits. They have different rating systems and use different equipment. Most climbers do some bouldering but most boulderers don't climb.

Take a look at the what's new page in mass there's 1700 routes that are almost all problems. pebblebrahject.com?
Long Duk Dong
From The Far East
Joined Jul 11, 2008
15 points
Nov 12, 2013
White Privilege wrote:
Climbing and bouldering are clearly different pursuits. They have different rating systems and use different equipment.

Big wall climbers, ice climbers, sport climbers and mountaineers all use different equipment and have different rating systems too. Frequently, it's hard to say when a boulder problem ends and a "proper" route begins. I say live and let live :)
Marek Sapkovski
Joined Jun 8, 2013
66 points
Nov 12, 2013
avatar
White Privilege wrote:
in mass there's 1700 routes that are almost all problems.


I think that says more about the geography of Massachusetts than anything.

--a Northeast native
Danie White
From SLC, UT
Joined Oct 14, 2012
201 points
Nov 13, 2013
White Privilege wrote:
Most climbers do some bouldering but most boulderers don't climb

Bwah! That's rich. If you're far enough from the deck to hurt yourself when you hit it, you're climbing. I'd say it happens around move #7-8 for a fair number of boulder problems... Last I checked there were many routes where by move #7-8 you've clipped. Twice.
Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Joined Aug 21, 2006
1,700 points
Nov 13, 2013
The Donger
Marek,

Climbers (ice, bigwall, sport, alpine) use ropes, boulderers use crash pads. Climbers use different rating to describe different things like ice vs rock, aid vs free. Boulderers use different rating to describe the same thing, free moves on rock.

Daniel,

That comment was in response to the op's concern about areas being overwhelmed by large amounts of problems being added. I thought MA was a good example of that.

Boissal,

I think it's more an issue of cultural differences between these groups rather than some height at which everything is called climbing.
Long Duk Dong
From The Far East
Joined Jul 11, 2008
15 points
Nov 13, 2013
Most boulders are found in the mountains or near mountains. Thus boulders are projects that take place in the mountains, thus they are mountain projects. B. Climbin'
Joined Apr 6, 2009
9,486 points
Nov 13, 2013
Bugaboos, 1978 Photo by Ken Trout
White Privilege wrote:
Climbers (ice, bigwall, sport, alpine) use ropes, boulderers use crash pads.


Skiers, slack-liners, riggers, etc. all use ropes. Free-soloists climb without. By the above definition, they're not a climbers?!?!?

Climbers climb stuff. There are too many variations out there to peg it much further, thus a website generally addressing climbing works well.

Carry on.
Kirk Miller
From Golden, CO
Joined May 13, 2003
1,550 points
Nov 13, 2013
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
Brian, please don't neglect the alpine expedition bouldering. They go to the mountains to wrestle pebbles at the base like in this film - it is the future!

youtu.be/7QBnRhBlUFE
doligo
Joined Sep 26, 2008
408 points
Nov 13, 2013
Hittin' Miguel's with the new Chimps in tow
Bryan G wrote:
For the larger areas I think it works best if the boulder problems are listed under a separate area page, so the routes aren't jumbled together with problems. For example - Yosemite Valley Bouldering and *Joshua Tree Bouldering*. Keeps it nicely organized without the need for a completely different website.


+1

This would also be nice when I'm in an area and just looking to go out for a quick bouldering session, or if I'm traveling somewhere and want to check out the bouldering at a glance.
Matt Roberts
From Columbus, OH
Joined Mar 24, 2010
97 points
Nov 13, 2013
The Donger
Kirk,

Climbers climb stuff, like trees. Should we include routes up trees on this site as well?
Long Duk Dong
From The Far East
Joined Jul 11, 2008
15 points
Nov 13, 2013
White Privilege wrote:
Marek, Climbers (ice, bigwall, sport, alpine) use ropes, boulderers use crash pads. Climbers use different rating to describe different things like ice vs rock, aid vs free. Boulderers use different rating to describe the same thing, free moves on rock. Daniel, That comment was in response to the op's concern about areas being overwhelmed by large amounts of problems being added. I thought MA was a good example of that. Boissal, I think it's more an issue of cultural differences between these groups rather than some height at which everything is called climbing.


Obviously we also then need a separate site for the french, australian and british climbers who all use a different rating system to describe free moves...
frankstoneline
Joined Apr 23, 2009
22 points
Nov 13, 2013
The Donger
Frank,

That is something I considered before I wrote that and I tried to explain the idea to avoid your response. I think it's reasonable for different countries with different languages to have different rating systems from us. I think it's weird that there was already an established system in the US and bouldering introduced a new system to rate something already covered by the YDS, difficulty of free moves on rock.

It's had a strange affect. For example a 5.12 sport climb described as a V2 with a V4 crux followed by V1 to the anchors. Hence, a lot of discussion on how the two grades compare.
Long Duk Dong
From The Far East
Joined Jul 11, 2008
15 points
Nov 13, 2013
White Privilege wrote:
Frank, That is something I considered before I wrote that and I tried to explain the idea to avoid your response. I think it's reasonable for different countries with different languages to have different rating systems from us. I think it's weird that there was already an established system in the US and bouldering introduced a new system to rate something already covered by the YDS, difficulty of free moves on rock. It's had a strange affect. For example a 5.12 sport climb described as a V2 with a V4 crux followed by V1 to the anchors. Hence, a lot of discussion on how the two grades compare.



The pursuits have very different focuses, much like the evolution of the YDS to encompass overall difficulty, rather than simply the hardest single move on a climb. Ultimately (granted this is sort of my projection) I think most "climbers" would take offense to "boulderers" taking the 13a tick for a v7, while i'm not certain anyone would give two shakes if someone who only sport climbed claimed to boulder v7 based on the crux of a sport climb. Also, wikiboulder provides a similar resource for bouldering only, but i'm not sure why an entire separate site would be needed, especially with a filter already available to keep thine eyes unscathed by the disgrace that is boulder problems.
frankstoneline
Joined Apr 23, 2009
22 points
Nov 13, 2013
My dogs got ups yo!
I'm pretty sure the people that think bouldering is neither rock climbing, or worthy of this site haven't figured out that the Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) and the Hueco "V-Scale" are on the way out. The French System is starting to take over more and more every year. There is a hell of a lot more kids coming into this sport every year than people over the age of 50 (age typical of the boulder haters) and those kids are all over sites like www.8a.nu and countless blogs that all promote the French Scale. Pretty much every video & magazine coming out these days have all started to move away from the YDS and V-Scales. Therefore your argument about how boulderer's should move away from this site because they/we have our own V-Scale is pointless. jarthur
From Westminster, CO
Joined Mar 23, 2008
322 points


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