I've got this hot tub, was hoping to have a spring yard party/bbq/soak this week but..

just got the new box and Ground Fault Interrupter installed to make it meet Boulder city codes and whatnot. It used to work just fine (illegally) directly wired in at its previous residence. But this new GFI trips out everytime I try to turn it on. My tools and skills are not enough to find the problem. Any climbers out there with knowledge of such things? Hank? Phil?

There is a possibility that the GFCI might be defective. Replacing it with a new one would be the first and easiest step.

Post some photos of your wiring all the way back to the main panel. There is a good chance this problem (or another one) will be obvious on inspection.

A GFCI is a tested part. You'd likely have had to damage it, and if the problem persists, you'd just damage the new one.

I suggested that because I have had a problem with a newly installed GFCI outlet that was defective. I wasted a lot of time troubleshooting before it occurred to me to replace it.

Chances are remote, but something to consider.

Is the GFCI in breaker form, or is it a receptacle? If it's a breaker, it's possible there may be too many neutrals/grounds tied to it. The breaker works on the theory that the current on the line side equal the current on the neutral side. If there are other grounds and neutrals tied to the circuit the wrong way, it may be contributing to the breaker tripping off. Something to check out, anyway.

All you need is one can of chernobyl energy drink.

When I read this post, several things come to mind:

Was a GFI used at the previous location? I see you mentioned a "new box and GFI" But was one used in the previous location?

Not to sound like I'm dumbing you down, but did you confirm and see the hot tub working at previous location?

If so, what is the electrical requirements for this hot tub, are you exceeding them with the hot tub and it's electrical draw? Don't forget other items within the same circuit as the hot tub.

Are you going directly to a source that goes into your main electric panel or is it a sub-panel? What size breaker is used in this circuit?

Are there other appliances or items also pulling a draw from this circuit? If so, are they working or not?

Your main panel should have listed 'rooms/circuits' for each breaker. Check them out and make sure the breaker didn't trip, if so reset it and see if it trips again when you try the hot tub.

Are you sure the wiring is correct, hot to hot, ground to ground, neutral to neutral?

Did the hot tub in mention come with wiring diagrams, schematics?

Is just the pump not working, or the heating element, both, all electric devices associated with hot tub not working, (lights, outlets, etc....) Maybe in the moving of the hot tub, some wires were damaged or pulled from the hot tub pump/other devices associated with hot tub operation and contacting metal parts under the hot tub, which could be causing the GFI to trip.

If you need more assistance give me a buzz, I've done numerous wiring projects at home and at other friends houses'. Actually finished up some electrical needs to get my TIG welder up and going.

Juan
970.518.3977

the hot tub was warming and circulating water the day before we unplugged and moved it. It was not however connected in a legal maner. There was no GFI, and though it was used without incident for over a year, it was probably unsafe.

The new setup is a GFI located in a sub panel run straight from the main. No trouble back at the main, no trips there. I know there is power to the sub panel (green led on box).

The main contacts in the Hot tub are wired directly back to the GFI.

i'm not sure how to tell if the GFI is defective. There is a test button below the breaker. if you push it, it clicks down a bit. I then have to click it all the way down to reset it, and then back to the top to turn it back on.

Even with the pump cable, or the cable from the controls up top.. unplugged; the GFI trips whenever I flip the local breaker on. The only other thing that is connected directly is the heater (and all the control wiring). Makes me think the problem is not needing a new pump, but in the heater or controls.

interior Submitted By: Joshua Merriam on Apr 17, 2010

I assume you connected the pigtail on the GFCI to the neutral and ground bus bar inside the sub panel? That would be an oversight and definitely the cause of your problem, if not.

Otherwise, this is all reading to me like a ground wiring problem at the hot tub. I can't see the photo very well, but I do see 220, both hot wires going up and left, then the neutral on the right, then the ground heading off to a bus bar?

Should that open terminal right of the neutral should be filled? What is that terminal doing there? Hard saying from here. If I was standing there, this is the first thing I would check. Do you have a wiring diagram? If not, I'd take an ohm meter and check ohms to ground for all of these terminals and know where they go, and also find ohms between these terminals and that bus bar you've connected your ground to. I would also look for this in the wiring diagram.

A GFCI trips when there is a current imbalance between hot and neutral. Whatever goes out need to come back. The pigtail on the breaker looks at what comes back. So, in the tub, you need to find where current is possibly not returning through neutral back to the sub panel.

Good luck. I can say this is about 5 mins of work while standing there for someone who knows what they are doing. It's just a couple wires. Post the inside of that sub panel for more help, if you want it from here.

Lacking someone stepping up to go help you, you'll have to settle meanwhile with the anonymous troll. Sorry.

By inside of the sub panel, I mean the one with the GFCI breaker. I see the box among the 3 pix you took, but I do not see inside it. You'd have to unscrew the front there so we can see the wires inside.

Of course, the next thing any electrician reading this thread is going to want to see is where and how those wires are connected to your main panel. Same thing, have to see the wires.

Just because some LED is glowing does not mean it is wired correctly. In fact, your problem makes the wiring in these two panels the #1 suspect. There's more going on here than I have time to post about.

A problem like this has to be obvious. You're not tripping a breaker because of an overload or short, and I assume (hope) nobody has scrambled the wires inside the hot tub.

Lastly, I see 4 terminals in the first photo, and I assume the second photo is a top down view. Call them as such, left to right:

1) Hot, 1st phase.
2) Hot, 2nd phase.
3) Neutral.

I see these 3 are likely correct by where they lead in the control panel.

However,

4) ? Copper wire leading to ground bus ?
5) ?

What are these and what do they connect to?

Good luck. Maybe someone with more day-day knowledge of this exact situation will chime in.

There was a connection incorrect on the neutral in the panel. gonna call and complain about that one tomorrow. Traced the problem back to the pump after all. It turns on, but then trips the gfi. so just a hiccup of water bubbles through. The pump functions, so I'm gonna take it off and get it tested or something.

Hey sorry for lack of reply, been out of computer contact. I have some time Monday to help out if you need it. I posted my number if you wanted to take the step to ask. I don't know what your schedule looks like this week, but I do have some time. Give me a buzz if you want, but Tuesday afternoon and Thursday is out. There's so few replies and lack of someone going to help him, I guess we're all trolls on this post. But if you want me to come and help, I'm willing.....

Juan
970.518.3977

a 3 phase pump can be wired to run backwards, be sure to check that when you're working on this.

not an electrician but know pools and tubs fairly well, and aside from wiring issues, here are some other things to consider. Though it's been a while, the pump running backwards is a possibility as posted above, and another issue can be if the pump isn't cycling water (primed) make sure the lint trap is clean and the impeller is also free of debris. then fill up the lint trap with water, as full as you can, if there are any valves that can be opened or shut, make sure they are open maybe not full though to help build pressure.

not an electrician but know pools and tubs fairly well, and aside from wiring issues, here are some other things to consider. Though it's been a while, the pump running backwards is a possibility as posted above, and another issue can be if the pump isn't cycling water (primed) make sure the lint trap is clean and the impeller is also free of debris. then fill up the lint trap with water, as full as you can, if there are any valves that can be opened or shut, make sure they are open maybe not full though to help build pressure.

So - you can unplug the pump and the rest of the system works fine?

Try this.

I assume it's a 120v pump?

If after this you are still convinced it's the pump, remove it and wire it up directly with a 3 prong plug. This wiring and plug will cost you about $5 at Home Depot. Plug it into a GFCI *elsewhere* in the house, such as the bathroom or kitchen. Make sure on this outlet that when you press the "test" button, the outlet switches off. Plug in the motor. Make sure the motor has it's case and/or ground lead grounded to the ground in the plug, the 3rd prong - otherwise the whole test will be useless. Wear gloves so you don't get shocked. You shouldn't get shocked unless there is a problem with the pump. Does it trigger the GFCI? If yes, get a new pump and be glad you didn't electrocute your date. If no, then go back to the sub panel.

If you had a shop put this panel in, then get them to send someone else out to get the job done right. If you already found one mistake, that's one too many. This stuff should be absolutely trivial for someone in the trade. It's just a couple wires.

Just because the GFCI trips when the pump turns on does not mean the pump is the problem. It could just be the first thing that turns on that draws enough current to trip the GFCI.

I still think your sub panel is wired wrong. That's how it sounds from here. Pumps rarely fail as above. Also, I have GFCI's in my 2 shops. I have set off smoke alarms, killed tools and outlets, sparks have flown, and every power tool imaginable has been plugged into these outlets. I have never tripped a GFCI - just breakers.

BTW - the black, or hot wire, when you wire up the pump, should lead into the right of the two prongs in the outlet. The white, the neutral plug prong, is often a little wider, on the left.

Good luck,

happy update: all is well, tub is full and running..

thanks all for the encouragment and advice.

I would never go in a hot tub that was wired by a home owner.
There are to may possibilities why the GFI keeps tripping.
Seek the help of a qualified electrician.
This is cheep insurance.

Dan