By nbrown
From western NC
Jul 4, 2012
| Looks like the bolt was hammered into that crack, but I suppose it probably just looks that way in the picture. | 
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By Dom
Administrator
From New Brunswick Canada
Jul 4, 2012
| Does anyone have a good online website for ordering Epcon or Red head A7 and extra nozzles?
Buying at the hardware store is just too much money. |
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By Brian
From North Kingstown, RI
Jul 4, 2012
| Dom wrote: Does anyone have a good online website for ordering Epcon or Red head A7 and extra nozzles? Buying at the hardware store is just too much money.
www.fastenmsc.com/ |
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By kaiyhul
Jul 4, 2012
| Kind of off topic, but is it worth tightening bolts that have a hanger loose enough to flop around, or does it need to be replaced? This is in pretty soft rock (malibu creek) |
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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 5, 2012
| bmdhacks wrote: Can anyone comment on these home-made hangers I found at a crag. They look to be 1/16th inch steel that's been cut with snips and had the rough edges sanded off. I was concerned that a fall would slice through my quickdraw biner.
Slice through the biner? No, no chance. The hanger would break before that would happen, and if it did not, the biner would not fail from the hanger cutting through the aluminum. However, that is a less than optimal bolt, it would be a good idea to replace it. |
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By Gunkiemike
Jul 5, 2012
| bmdhacks wrote: Can anyone comment on these home-made hangers I found at a crag. They look to be 1/16th inch steel that's been cut with snips and had the rough edges sanded off. I was concerned that a fall would slice through my quickdraw biner.
Looks like a Leeper hanger. |
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By ClimbBaja
Jul 8, 2012
| Definitely not a Leeper hanger. Leepers are bent in the opposite direction and have a hole for a single carabiner.
It looks very similar in shape to a MHE hanger, circa mid-80s. But the MHE was heat treated chromoly (appearance is not bright or shiny) and the HME has slightly rounded corners.
i55.photobucket.com/albums/g149/Maderita/BoltHangerMHEchromo>>>
Using the same dies about 1990, I made a production run of stainless steel which would give the bright appearance. I used a thicker sheet metal, approx. 1/8" thick. The hanger in bmdhacks' photo was not one of my hangers. Most of the SS MHE hangers are placed in Baja.
i55.photobucket.com/albums/g149/Maderita/BolthangerMHESScirc>>> |
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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 18, 2012
| I believe I found a textbook example of galvanic corrosion today. This bolt was located on a Tyrolean Traverse at the Avalon wall in Boulder, CO, next to the river. The bolt and the washer under the bolt is made out of plated steel, and the hanger is made out of stainless steel. As you can see, only the plated steel material in contact with the stainless steel is corroding. If this was general uniform corrosion, the corrosion would not be limited to only the area in contact with the hanger.
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By John Braun
From Boston, MA
Jul 18, 2012
| Anyone have opinions on the new-ish Wave glue-ins? |
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By Aric Datesman
Jul 18, 2012
| John Braun wrote: Anyone have opinions on the new-ish Wave glue-ins?
Do you mean other than opinions about Wave's quite misleading testing in comparison to Bolt Products bolts, in which they compared pullout strength with the holes for the Bolt Products bolts drilled oversize?
No, no opinions. Other than the obvious. |
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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 19, 2012
| John Braun wrote: Anyone have opinions on the new-ish Wave glue-ins?
I have used them a bit. I have worked with the owner/ designer of the product in trying to improving the corrosion resistance of his design a bit. Anyway, they are good bolts for the money, and they are very strong. However, the bolts require a huge hole which requires a powerful drill and a lot of epoxy. If you are placing the Wave Bolts in hard rock, you must oversize the hole or else you will need a sledge hammer to get them in. For the 1/2" version you need a 5/8" hole and for the 5/8" version you need a 11/16" hole. Drilling a 11/16" x 4" hole eats up quite a bit of epoxy. |
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By Rick Mix
Jul 19, 2012
| I'll bet you need a sledge to get a 5/8 into a 11/16 hole! ;) |
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By Locker
From Westminster, CO
Jul 19, 2012
| "What's kind of interesting with respect to all this chatter about galvanic corrosion, is, there is very little to no evidence of it at any crag in the U.S. between plated and stainless steel."...
Well I am going to have to disagree there as I personally have seen it quite a few times when replacing mank...
and I am just one person so you know many others have come across it as well...
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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 19, 2012
| Rick Mix wrote: I'll bet you need a sledge to get a 5/8 into a 11/16 hole! ;)
Actually they fit in a 11/16" with no effort, you can slide them in. The reason you need a larger hole with the 1/2" version is because with the 1/2" version, the legs are spread more than the 5/8" version. |
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By slim
Jul 19, 2012
| Locker wrote: "What's kind of interesting with respect to all this chatter about galvanic corrosion, is, there is very little to no evidence of it at any crag in the U.S. between plated and stainless steel."... Well I am going to have to disagree there as I personally have seen it quite a few times when replacing mank... and I am just one person so you know many others have come across it as well...
i have noticed it quite a bit also. i think most people don't really know what to look for, so they assume it isn't there. |
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By Chris Vinson
Jul 19, 2012
| 20 kN wrote: If you are placing the Wave Bolts in hard rock, you must oversize the hole or else you will need a sledge hammer to get them in. For the 1/2" version you need a 5/8" hole and for the 5/8" version you need a 11/16" hole. Drilling a 11/16" x 4" hole eats up quite a bit of epoxy.
This has a lot to do with the inconsistency in production, a lot of them have been made to be "about right" in the past.
I just sank a couple the other day, 1/2" hole for the 1/2" Wavebolt and then a 5/8" hole for the 5/8" Wavebolt.
I'd be willing to bet that this issue will get fixed with upgraded tooling and manufacturing.
I think its a great design, very simple, innovative compared to anything else out on the market, they just need a bit more refinement. |
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By kennoyce
From Clearfield, UT
Jul 19, 2012
| slim wrote: i have noticed it quite a bit also. i think most people don't really know what to look for, so they assume it isn't there.
I agree with this. I noticed the first photo posted by "Brian in SLC" where he is saying that he hasn't ever seen galvanic corosion is a textbook example of galvanic corosion. Also, the photo he posted of the old petzl caving hanger (SS not aluminum) looks like it was probably galvanic corosion (it's too old to really know, but I'd guess it is). |
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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 19, 2012
| Chris Vinson wrote: This has a lot to do with the inconsistency in production, a lot of them have been made to be "about right" in the past. I just sank a couple the other day, 1/2" hole for the 1/2" Wavebolt and then a 5/8" hole for the 5/8" Wavebolt. I'd be willing to bet that this issue will get fixed with upgraded tooling and manufacturing. I think its a great design, very simple, innovative compared to anything else out on the market, they just need a bit more refinement.
The Wave Bolts are designed that way. Maybe there are production consistency issues as well, but the Wave Bolt was designed to enable bolters to place them in roofs and clip into them before the epoxy cures. They designed the legs to be wider than the hole diameter so you have to force them into the hole. When you do so, the legs compress and they provide enough resistance to allow you to clip into them and hang on them. However, they were designed mainly for the RRG, which has soft sandstone. When you try to use them in hard rock, forget it, it is impossible to get them in if you do not oversize the hole. |
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By Chris Vinson
Jul 20, 2012
| 20 kN wrote: However, they were designed mainly for the RRG, which has soft sandstone. When you try to use them in hard rock, forget it, it is impossible to get them in if you do not oversize the hole.
You're spot on.
I agree with you 20kN, they are tough for harder rock. You hit all the points that make them innovative and useful for equipping routes. They are also made with 316L stainless which would make them ideal for salt water environments like Thailand too.
I put them in 5000psi concrete, which is pretty hard stuff, but nowhere near the strength of some types of granite, but very comparable to some types of limestone. Harder rock will make them harder to place, but in terms of purpose, how many extremely steep overhung granite crags are there in relation to sandstone or limestone, which they were designed for?
The design is solid though, i will humbly argue that point with you for sandstone and limestone, they are ideal and the best option available for a longer lasting anchor.
We have a couple going in to a reto-bolting project here in Central Texas where the mechanical bolts just cant take the abuse over time. I'll post a video of how it went! |
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By slim
Jul 20, 2012
| i don't think RRG sandstone would be considered soft, at least not compared to many other sandstones. |
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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Jul 20, 2012
| It may be slightly softer than the NRG nuttal sandstone, but that's about it. Definitely harder than typical western sandstone. |
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By Killing In The Name Of
Jul 20, 2012
| Slim, the porous nature of it is what often makes people think it's soft. Every sandstone area has its good+bad rock, as well. I love Corbin, and guarantee you we could find total dirt chossbucket nastiness at pretty much every cliff at the Red, usually within a hundred feet or so of an amazing overhung classic, or often just at the base, on a different strata of rock than most of the climb. Just like El Cap has rotten shard piles like the Black Cave that are going to be garbage no matter how unbelievably perfect the rock was on the previous pitches.
I'm all for using glue-ins to replace bolts in Corbin-the porous nature means that water drains thru, meaning glue in stainless should last really, really long. |
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By Jim Titt
From Germany
Jul 20, 2012
| Chris Vinson wrote: They are also made with 316L stainless which would make them ideal for salt water environments like Thailand too.
You won´t find too many in the industry that share that view, nor will you find any 300 series for areas of high corrosion risk in the next UIAA standard. |
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