Bolt/Chain etiquette

Hey would someone go over some rules of bolt etiquette. For the most part I think I know what I'm doing as far as what to anchor to what and what to run the rope through when repelling. Just wanting to get a list of do's and don't's esentially. Example - what to clip self anchors too, what to clip my beaners too if I'm going to use them for TR.

Thanks

Joshua, Ask some of the climber's around Tuscon to show you and watch you while you do it a few times. Better learned and memorized hands on.

Petzl has some videos on this but no substitute for hands on

The biggest faux pas I usually see is folks who can't finish a pitch bailing off of a quick link. Do not leave quick links on intermediate bolts on routes. Leave a carabiner instead.

Sounds like you could use some mentorship. Find someone experienced to teach you or hire a guide. Don't attempt to learn climbing through the Internet.

Your questions sound less about "etiquette," and more about instruction.

Have fun!

On etiquette:
Is it a safe and common practice to share anchors between multiple climbers. For example- two climbers on opposite sides of a dihedral using same sets of anchors.
I've seen this done and has made me uncomfortable enough to pack up my stuff and leave. I've been told by one that it's a normal thing at crowded crags and that I should be open and willing to share my anchors with others.
What are your opinions? I choose, for now, to not climb at crowded crags.

JoeGaribay wrote:Is it a safe and common practice to share anchors between multiple climbers. For example- two climbers on opposite sides of a dihedral using same sets of anchors.

This is fairly common practice. Like most things in climbing, it can be done very safely... or not. The main concern is that one party manipulating their anchor could somehow inadvertently compromise the other party's anchor. As long as everyone knows what they're doing, most fixed anchors are plenty strong enough to hold two parties.

The standard etiquette for single-pitch stuff is whoever is there first has dibs on the anchor. Whoever wants to jump on second should ask if it's ok. As the first party, you have the right to refuse if you doubt their competency (or your own competency) to deal with the added complication.

Joshua Munoz wrote:Hey would someone go over some rules of bolt etiquette. For the most part I think I know what I'm doing as far as what to anchor to what and what to run the rope through when repelling. Just wanting to get a list of do's and don't's esentially. Example - what to clip self anchors too, what to clip my beaners too if I'm going to use them for TR. Thanks

General etiquette: do all follows, top-roping, etc through your own gear. Only used fixed gear for the final descent when clearing the anchor. Whether you should rappel or lower for the final descent is a piece of etiquette that engenders much argument, and the correct answer seems to be regional or crag-specific. As to what bits of the anchor you clip carabiners to -- pick something safe, but there isn't much issue on that one. Same for self-anchors, that isn't an etiquette issue, that's a safety issue. Make a safe choice.

JoeGaribay wrote:On etiquette: Is it a safe and common practice to share anchors between multiple climbers. For example- two climbers on opposite sides of a dihedral using same sets of anchors. I've seen this done and has made me uncomfortable enough to pack up my stuff and leave. I've been told by one that it's a normal thing at crowded crags and that I should be open and willing to share my anchors with others. What are your opinions? I choose, for now, to not climb at crowded crags.

At many crags, more than one route may/will share an anchor. In such cases, it is generally expected that an anchor will be shared. But, it is polite to ask the climber(s) already using the anchor if they're fine with sharing before doing so, and it is polite for them to agree. Of course, if you run into timing conflict -- both teams are approach the anchor to clean/setup/whatever, or there is route overlap near the anchor (common), then priority would generally be given to the climbers that were first using the anchor.

JoeGaribay wrote:On etiquette: Is it a safe and common practice to share anchors between multiple climbers. For example- two climbers on opposite sides of a dihedral using same sets of anchors. I've seen this done and has made me uncomfortable enough to pack up my stuff and leave. I've been told by one that it's a normal thing at crowded crags and that I should be open and willing to share my anchors with others. What are your opinions? I choose, for now, to not climb at crowded crags.

It's extremely common. On some routes in Red Rocks for example, you may be sharing anchors with another party at every belay since on some routes (eg: Crimson Chrysalis) the descent rappels the line of the climb. On big routes in Yosemite you may well have faster parties sharing your anchor as they pass you. Learn how to safely deal with it. Not climbing at crowded crags, while appealing, is not always possible and often artificially limiting. Some of the best crags in the country are crowded.

Chuck Parks wrote:The biggest faux pas I usually see is folks who can't finish a pitch bailing off of a quick link. Do not leave quick links on intermediate bolts on routes. Leave a carabiner instead.

I love it when people bail on quick links, I use said quick links to replace worn out ones on chains... saves me a couple bucks each time I find one, except for the time I found 1/8" quick link at a crux, that just looked sketchy.

Chuck Parks wrote:The biggest faux pas I usually see is folks who can't finish a pitch bailing off of a quick link. Do not leave quick links on intermediate bolts on routes. Leave a carabiner instead.

What is wrong with bailing off a quick link? Sometimes they can be hard to unscrew but that is about it.

IMHO the biggest faux pas is typically top topping off the anchors rather than one's own gear and having the last person rappel.

Chuck Parks wrote: This [sharing anchors] is fairly common practice. Like most things in climbing, it can be done very safely... or not. The main concern is that one party manipulating their anchor could somehow inadvertently compromise the other party's anchor. As long as everyone knows what they're doing, most fixed anchors are plenty strong enough to hold two parties. The standard etiquette for single-pitch stuff is whoever is there first has dibs on the anchor. Whoever wants to jump on second should ask if it's ok. As the first party, you have the right to refuse if you doubt their competency (or your own competency) to deal with the added complication.

Agreed. Sharing anchors is fine but both parties need to be happy with the setup.

Stick clip your way to the chains and lower off and clean.

Why does this reply make me cringe a little bit?

Allen Sanderson wrote:What is wrong with bailing off a quick link? Sometimes they can be hard to unscrew but that is about it.

Maybe it's something about the weather down here in the South, or some sort of ancient curse, but more often than not when I've encountered a quick-link it has been rusted shut. Sometimes they hang around for years, cock-blocking the crux clip on a route until someone finally hauls a hacksaw out to the crag and cuts them down.

A carabiner may cost more, but it is easy for the next leader to remove whether it be a day later or a year later. I generally collect more booty than I leave behind. So for me leaving a bail biner isn't really losing a piece of gear, more like releasing it back into the wild.

T Roper wrote:Stick clip your way to the chains and lower off and clean. Why does this reply make me cringe a little bit?

Yes, why does it? When you're still working individual sections of a project, what does it matter?

Marc801 wrote: Yes, why does it? When you're still working individual sections of a project, what does it matter?

In the grand scheme of things it really doesnt matter a bit, its just a bit pathetic "projecting" something you cant even make the clips on.

John Wilder wrote: Because its often at the crux, making hanging the draw difficult and if you clip the draw above the link, you're now torquing the carabiner in a less than ideal way. Honestly, outside of a really poorly bolted sport route or odd trad route with a lone bolt, there's really no reason to ever bail anyway. Stick clip your way to the chains and lower off and clean.

Injury, thunderstorms, bear attacks?
Sometimes you need to bail for reasons other than inability to pull the moves, and sometimes time is a factor.

But I agree, better to use carabiners than quicklinks by far.

Em Cos wrote: Injury, thunderstorms, bear attacks? Sometimes you need to bail for reasons other than inability to pull the moves, and sometimes time is a factor.

If time is a factor, then a biner or draw is by far the fastest.
If you're bailing mid-pitch and you're using a quicklink, basically it means you don't give a shit about any other climbers that might do the route after you.

Hi Marc,
I wasn't arguing that time being a factor was a reason not to use a biner, I was responding to John Wilder's comment that "there's really no reason to ever bail anyway." (referring to bailing mid-route as opposed to finding a way to get to the top and lower cleanly); by giving a few examples of time-sensitive reasons to bail. I also said, if you care to quote my entire post:

Em Cos wrote: Injury, thunderstorms, bear attacks? Sometimes you need to bail for reasons other than inability to pull the moves, and sometimes time is a factor. But I agree, better to use carabiners than quicklinks by far.

John Wilder wrote: Because its often at the crux, making hanging the draw difficult and if you clip the draw above the link, you're now torquing the carabiner in a less than ideal way. Honestly, outside of a really poorly bolted sport route or odd trad route with a lone bolt, there's really no reason to ever bail anyway. Stick clip your way to the chains and lower off and clean.

The number of "odd trad routes" probably outnumber overbolted spurt routes 10 to 1.

The number of real climbers who don't think a stick clip is essential gear probably outnumber whatever the others are 20 to 1.

That's 2 reasons.

But just use a freaking biner

" school of Rock " there is a good section about it, very helpful....

This should be obvious
Don't leave anything that weathers - biners can and do get stuck shut,
Place a draw and back off on rappel
Bailing off of links ? Cheesy, if you do you should go and clean that shjt as soon as you can like right after you get down, or come back soon - like the next day
tat cuts away easily cost next to nothing and can be cleaned easily
Redundancy I said it twice I know