I've been thinking about remote hauling in a solo situation. if I have the theory right, it goes like so (oversimplified of course):

1: Haulbag is resting on a fifi on a bombproof peice on the lower anchor.

2. Once the soloist is at the new anchor, he/she/it sets up a simple haul on a ratcheting device.

3. Moving end of the hauling rope (the one on the opposite side of the pulley from the haulbag) is tied to the belay loop on the soloist.

3. Said soloist rappels an independent line (such as think tag line) to the original, lower anchor, thus causing the bag to raise

Assuming of course, the bag doesn't get stuck, and you are heavier than the bag, and a number of other variables.

the main detraction from this practice seems to be the fear that it the bag blows off the fifi, it will also rip the leader off the pitch, probably(?) killing him/her/it.

I propose as a solution to this problem (and bear in mind this is not intended to fix any other problems with remote hauling or condone the practice) the inclusion of a mooring hitch in the haul line, above the haul bag, on an independent bomber piece of gear.

A mooring hitch demonstration can be found here http://www.ropeworks.biz/reader/mooring.pdf

the loop (or free) end going up to the climber, while the weight baring end going to the haul bag. The idea is that the haul bag would still rest on the fifi hook, but if the bag fell, it wouldn't affect the Soloist. Note that tension from above would release and unweighted mooring hitch, thus allowing the necessary remote manipulation in order to haul on rappel.

No more death. Weather or not thats a good thing i'll leave to you to decide.

Anywho, someone who actually does walls should test this theory. I've tested it in non-wall situations, and it works fine. Of course, all things are different up there.

Adam

Adam,

I have used the haul bag on the fifi trick in the past but never really felt that confident about it so take my points with that in mind. Hopefully someone use actively uses it can pipe in here.

1. Use two fifi's duct taped together, one isn't strong enough.
2. Use a very weak link of cord from my harness to the haul link so that if the bag came off the link would break rather than take you all the way to the ground. Think major anchor failure here.

For me and my style of climbing, I find it pretty efficient to climb, rapp and then haul or use far end depending on the terrain. I try to top step as much as I can, spread out the placements and make time there, rather than save 20 minutes with the hauling... but then I'm no speed freak since I average 3 hours a pitch.

Sorry to be slow-thinking (its early in the morning), but why wouldn't you use a mooring hitch INSTEAD of a fifi? I like the 2mm perlon idea.

No... the fifi's still easier to actuate. the mooring hitch is more of a backup... mostly because it's hard to untie if it's been heavily waited. "Always have to systems between you and death"

Believe it or not, I have actually tried this. The system is called Double Tagging, and I have a diagram available. When I have some more time, I'll post up for you.

It's dangerous, it's tricky, it works if your load is about 60% of your body weight, and only if the route is overhanging. However on my solo of Native Son, I found it to be more trouble than it was worth. While it helped with hauling, it was just too damn scary!

Later, eh?

It's your diagram I'm working off of. I thought that the addition of a back up knot would help relieve some of that scaryness. Or am I wrong about the dangerous part? is it during the actual haul that you find the process disturbing? as, in your terms, a BWT, I'm interested in systems and systemic problem solving, at least until i can get the time off work to actually DO a big wall. which i will almost assuredly fail on.

Adam

I think the most important element with this set up is that the haulbag is on an independant anchor (or cordalette) from your lead anchor. You also have to worry a lot more about your ropes, and in my experience after you get about 100 feet out is when all your rope decides to go for a ride out of the rope bags. You don't need to use a third line for this to work, just rap your lead line like normal (reclipping your pieces for the jug). Get a full strength Fifi, they make them specifically for this.

The mooring hitch seems like a good idea....would love to hear how it goes for you. I also like the idea of the less than full strength attachment of your haulbag to your harness. I have tied the end of the lead line to my trail line, with the idea that there is always a dynamic element between me and the bag.

My most exciting moment with a remote haul system was soloing the Salathe. I had linked the pitch below with the ear pitch and close to the top of the ear felt my haul line go tight....with my last piece 10 feet to my right(facing out) and the jug of the edge of the ear just out of reach to my left. Looking down between my legs at the valley floor below me I had a mini meltdown before saying FK it and going for it. I didn't use the system any more after that.

Super quick reply, going fishing!

Fear is if you fall on lead, you somehow knock the damn thing off. It is probably not too justified, really. I do use my Solo Tag Rack all the time, and I tie the slippery overhand knot above it which in theory might keep it from popping in the event of a bad fall.

Maybe the Double Tagging wouldn't be so scary with the slippery overhand knots. BUT it's still a huge clusterfuck and a pain in the ass, and to my way of thinking, more trouble than it's worth.

Go practise at your local crag with a bag of rocks, and tell us how you make out!

done that, thought I can't figure out how to simulate the haulbag blowing from the fifi. I also don't tie the haul line to my harness, I tie it to the bottom of my tag-bag thingie. it seems to eliminate alot of clusterfriggage. My system for doing this goes:

lead line eighted into the powerpoint of a bomber, redundant achor. This line goes up to my solo device (grigri) then a loop of slack to my backup (clove hitch). the slack goes into a ropebag at the lower anchor, and is then tied into the top of the tag line.

the tag line goes to a tag bag (currently a small backpack, soon something beefier)on an apline butterfly, then is eighted to the top of the haul line.

Haul line is stacked in a ropebag, and then to a mooring hitch on a bomber anchor piece. The haul line then goes to the fifi'd haul bag on another bomber anchor piece.

of course, my systems might not be good. Mooring hitch pulls fine from the upper anchor, unless the bag's weighted it. Then it's almost impossible to pull.

I'd try it on a wall, but I'm only a theorist, and one strapped for time.

Well, there are no Big Wall Theorists on the summit. If you have successfully climbed one big wall by legit means, you can no longer be a BWT.

That being said, there are plenty of places where you can apply Big Wall Theory to seriously clusterfuck yourself, and make things a lot more difficult than they need to be.

And this could very well be one of those places.