Yeah, I think it's Jed actually, but I wasn't too worried about getting an anonymous avatar right. Anyway, I wanted to shout out a for a post he wasn't blowing snot on people!

Nice JLP thanks for taking the time to explain it all so well , Your point was exactly what I knew all along ( in regards to number of sketchy placements ect )but was wondering if in the last 20 years id missed something somewhere between work n play?As I dont climb sandstone that much...

A-6 is a Euro grade of an A-5 pitch if you can find an A-5 pitch on
shi@@y sandstone

cool .....

It's all sooo clear now


Thanks Again .
Rog..

this whole mess is a play on Beyer's own unique aid scale.

Not the old scale, not the new wave...his OWN.

Back when Beyer was the only one climbing his stuff he could call it A6, A5b, A4d. Whatever he wanted, noone was repeating his stuff, he could tell tall tales all day.

Homey, the hardman Euro is just playing off of the Beyer's scale. For a period of years I was pretty in touch with Beyer's grading. Kalous's aid rant (He did second ascent? of Death of American democracy and soloed second of World's End, both Beyer's, both in Fishers)is spot on. Everyone tells teh same story of contrived placements/difficulty, voodoo topos, and a heavy drill.

Ok thanks Brent

I understand it and that aid rant guy is f*##**n funny.........

Wow - sixty posts on aid ratings? Don't you guys have anything more interesting to talk about?

Aid ratings just aren't one of these things you can quantify very well. One man's A4 is another man's A2. If you have the skill and experience and equipment, you can turn a hard A4 pitch into a reasonable exercise. If not, it can become a living nightmare. Examples on how to mitigate risk would include knowing how to replace crappy fixed or dead heads with your own new good ones, and knowing how to use hooks for pro that will actually stop you if you blow it. A huge rack of Screamers and Scream Aids will make a big difference, too.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but you guys oughta go out and give some of these aid pitches a try. It's actually a lot of fun, and not too scary once you get the hang of it. Plus it's the only way you can reach the bitchin'est campsites.

As for Mr. Beyer, although I have never met him, I am more than a little pissed at his destruction of Wall of Early Morning Light on El Cap. When he climbed Martyr's Brigade, he destroyed a bunch of anchors and bolts on WOEML, which have yet to be fixed. The line is currently unclimbable.

You guys ought to read Richard Jensen's account of his and Mark Smith's second ascent of Beyer's Intifada, touted as "the hardest aid route on the planet". Here are some exerpts:

"I realized that, on the first pitch at least, Beyer had bypassed natural hook placements, and had used the drill instead to trench heads which weren't needed. We rated the pitch A4. Had he hooked everything that was available, instead of trenching, Beyer would have had an A5 ground-fall pitch. Instead, Beyer appeared to have 'brought the pitch down to his level'."

They found no A6 Death Anchors, and in fact the climbing wasn't even that hard. Have a read - good stuff!

http://jensenconsultations.com/climbing/intifada/intifada.ht>>>>>

I just got off a new route in Zion. We did stacks of hard aid. Aid is dead. Not cool. Mostly a sport for dorks like me who can't free climb moonlight.
We talked about this topic up there as we are tasked with rating a bunch of difficult sandstone nailing. Ryan AKA "YO" said:
" The aid scale is kind of lame because it's overkill. It's either A1, A2+, or A4 because the scale is topped out at A5 and you are a blowhard if you use the 5." In our little world, the 4 means you will likely get hurt, or hurt bad if you blow it.

A6 or A6+ = BLOWHARD.

Unlike the open-ended free scales, the aid scale should not be opened up. You don't have to be Sharma or Yuji to do an A5, just a little nuts and very lucky, or unlucky to have actually found an A5 pitch. I've fallen on beaks, heads, and shitty old sticking out Bridwell rivets and had them all hold.

Show me an A5 pitch. I'll wager that none have yet been found in Zion. That is saying a lot for the hundreds of aid routes that have been done there. I'll bet only 1 or 2 have actually claimed A5 pitches. Flying Bryan, Burt and Ammon have done some crazy aid climbing there (stigmata, the arch on red arch...) I've not seen any A5 on their topos...

A6 (no anchor)--WHY? BLOWHARDS. These folks should be embarrased for thier blatant hot air.

Pete,
Thank you for that link. I have been fascinated with hard Fisher Tower aid lines (not that I will ever actually try one,) and have always found Beyer intriguing. I think that his original "no holes deeper than 1/4 inch on the FA" is officially bunk.
Two things to Beyer's credit though:
1. Beyer had his own aid rating scale (see Desert Rock 4)so if he wants to call it A6, than it was Beyer A6.
2. Having spent a bit of time in the desert alone I can attest that your perceptions tend to get a bit warped.

My definition of A6- If you fall you and your partner die, along with everyone else who happens to be on the route. Your life insurance will also be revoked, and your bereaved will be audited by the IRS.