So I've had friends fall onto RURP's copperheads... birbeaks.... Heck, I even know a guy who lost his balance, and was caught by his daisy chain on a cam-hook! So how do you really know that the peice is 'body weight only' unless you fall on it and have it rip? I mean I have led aid pitches where I am scared because I think I might fall and am not sure if any peices below me will hold.... but unless you have led a whole pitch on hooks can you legitimately call it A5? How do you know that if you fell at the top your peices would 'definitely' rip out.... how do you know without taking that fall. Just sayin....

Well, as you pointed out, you don't know. My answer to that question is that it's nothing you could cont on, but most 'sketchy' gear I've ever fallen on has held. I've only popped a peice or two in my life.

I'll 2nd that. I'm not super experienced at trad, but I have fallen on 000 C3s, brassies, and #1 BD nuts that were below my knees that have all held and I weigh 170+ lbs. When I started climbing trad, I had a friend suggest going to a bolted route that was protectable with gear (totally different topic) and place some "sketchy" pro while also clipping the bolts below and seeing what held. I was unable to get any pieces to pop...
But, I also had a friend fall on a "bomber" #2 camalot....which turned out to be stronger than the rock holding it, thus causing the rock to explode.
Remember, the force ratings are all supposed to be minimums...either way, it's all an exciting gamble.

A body weight piece is one that will probably not hold a fall. And people will sometimes differ on what they consider body weight only. I would be surprised if a well placed #6 brass hb didn't hold a reasonable length fall and wouldn't consider such a piece body weight only.

Body weight is just that. quite simply it will hold your ass and not much else lots of placements in aid climbing are body weight only

If you happen to slip and it catches you>>>> well it wasn't body weight only.... was it????

I think your missing the point of body weight only it does not imply anywhere it will hold a fall just your ass n gear.

BTW lots of copperhead,beak , hook, and micro stopper placements are quite good and will hold much more than body weight.

As far as knowing if marginal pieces will hold you do your best to test each piece and the rest is luck there is no guarentee in climbing .

As for A-5 there are soo few true A-5 pitches out there I realy wouldn't worry about it too much....

A guy posted this on the "A6" thread a couple weeks back, I thought it was a great point about how A5 ratings are really BS (same logic applies to body weight only placements)....

A bunch of experienced climbers do a pitch and weigh in on the rating - same as the rest of climbing. Getting hung up on the "body weight only" thing is just chatter among rookies. What gear you have and how good you are at placing and judging it is what makes the difference. The main thing is that even on something like a hard heading pitch, if you've got the time - there's no pump clock running - you can sit there all day and equalize a whole lot of heads. Someone with mediocre skills can do many of the harder pitches out there - they just take longer.

Yeah Erik this video says it all. Aid climbing is a joke, and yet it draws so much attention simply because common folk don't know that damn difference.

A similar rant could be made for any aspect of climbing. I would like to make one for alpine climbing. I love hearing about "high altitude" when all you really need to do to prepare for it is sit on your ass for a few days. The thing is, as "easy" as aid climbing and alpine climbing are, the grade V and up lines see a lot more failures than, say, Astroman. The [true] A3+ and harder routes on El Cap are sought after by many, but only see a few ascents a year. There's a little something-something going on that you just have to go experience for yourself.

You guys are starting to sound a bit like Big Wall Theorists....

There is not a single mention of bounce-testing in this post. Why is that?

If there's such a thing as "body-weight only", I don't use very many placements like that. That's because when I start getting scared, I start aggressively bounce-testing my placements. A good solid bounce-test can generate close to a thousand pounds, and a Yates Screamer will begin to deploy around 800 pounds. Scream-Aids at about a third of that. Use lots of fall arresters, along with good bounce-testing technique, and you can reduce a hard aid pitch to a reasonable proposition.

Funk-testing is not reliable - it is possible to generate forces of two thousand pounds or more with the flick of your risk, thus destroying good placements.

Don't bounce-test heads too hard, especially fixed ones. Do gently bounce-test heads, especially fixed ones, because there are a few @ssholes out there who put in barely-placed heads with the hope that you will clip it, and then it will pull, causing you to fall.

Do bounce-test your nuts and pins aggressively. Careful with your cams. Not so much on hooks.

And as for this "body-weight only" placements, questions like "how far will you fall?" and "what constitutes A5?" and nonsense like that - it is mostly Big Wall Theory. Quit writing about it on internet forums, and go out and start climbing some aid pitches. You will know how hard it is based on how scared you get.

Well said Pete! First off Im not looking to start a pissing match w/ you so don't go gettin yer hackles up and I could not agree with you more about bw theory ...

I however did mention testing of gear . I did not go into as much detail as you did simply because I feel if your aid climbing ONE of the first things you should learn along w/the basics is bounce testing of gear .

Now Im going trad climbing ....

Cheers.