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The Dog House
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Big Dog 

YDS: 5.12a/b French: 7b Ewbanks: 26 UIAA: VIII+ British: E5 6a

   
Type:  Sport, 1 pitch
Consensus:  YDS: 5.12a/b French: 7b Ewbanks: 26 UIAA: VIII+ British: E5 6a [details]
FA: Mark Rolofson/Alan Nelson, 1999
Page Views: 3,415
Submitted By: Nate Weitzel on Jan 1, 2001
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You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (43)
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Mark Rolofson fires for the bowling ball on Big Do...

Description 

Big Dog ascends the right overhanging arete on this formation. The big landmark is a very overhung start, up to a big volleyball like sloper midway up the first section.

This route has fun overhanging moves and leads to an interesting vertical face for the second half. The original rating was 12d, but the route is only 12a if the easiest beta is found. Also there are a couple of drilled holds on the route, but the 12a rating stands without using these holds, they are not needed. In fact, there is a drilled crimper on the vertical face amid many nice horizontal edges for the hand hold, I am not really sure why this was drilled. Despite the drilled holds, this is a very cool route that makes for a great ascent. Enjoy.


Protection 

10 bolts, two bolt anchor.



Photos of Big Dog Slideshow Add Photo
In the dog house.
In the dog house.
Big Dog.
Big Dog.
BETA PHOTO
Ben Lindfors Climbing Big Dog.
Ben Lindfors Climbing Big Dog.
Le on Big Dog.
Le on Big Dog.
Comments on Big Dog Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Jun 19, 2008
By Quinn Stevens
From: Denver, CO
Aug 1, 2001

BTW, there most certainly IS beta without the manufactured undercling pocket or the suspiciously smooth face pocket. I would agree with you, Alan, that Viagra Falls is solid 12c. Other good 12c's are Sucking at the Primo Wall, the Great Escape, and the New Polution (hard 12c). To me Big Dog seems easier than any of these. The holds are all positive and the rests are quite kind. I'll call it 12b. Perhaps it's a beta thing. Rolof. is pictured doing this route on the cover of the CC guide. I go up with my opposite hand. Also, when I try using the pocket, I always fall. This botches my whole sequence. In my opinion, a route's grade should be based upon the best beta possible, used on redpoint. The majority of routes that have been downgraded in the canyon were routes that were put up very close to publication date. The assumption was that these routes needed more time for consensus. If anything, that's what's so great about this site. We can hash it out! Don't necessarily assume that the routes just 'feel easy' because we're mutant youngsters. Over 90% of my climbing time is spent outside, not training like a banchee indoors. We are trying to be honest, collaborative, and comparative.

By Nate Weitzel
Aug 2, 2001

I would submit that there are a number of climbers who have flashed the route, or done it on the second try. I know of four people who have onsighted the route (without any beta), and I know a couple of others who did on on try number 2 (myself included). I am not a climber who is able to send a 5.12c or 5.12d on the second try, hence the rating I wrote in. I discussed the rating with a number of climbers in town and everyone feels it is a 12b if you are generous, but not 12c. I think that this is another situation of trying to arrive at a consensus rating based on many people climbing the route. All of us will attack the route different and find different beta. The final ratings should be based on a redpoint attempt with the best beta, and the best conditions. Sure it may be harder if you switch the sequence, but that doesn't mean there isn't an easier way.

By Nate Weitzel
Aug 2, 2001

Alan: I was told that the large undercling midway through the overhung section was the "enhanced hold". If this is true, then it certainly can be done without using it as I myself, and three others I have seen have done the route without this hold. Maybe I am mistaken about the actual "enhanced" hold.

By Richard M. Wright
From: Lakewood, CO
Aug 17, 2001

Grades are always going to be subjective, and Big Dog clearly has at least two ways to do it, making the grading even more up in the air. I thought the original beta made for a very difficult route, however, the beta Greg Purnell used when he and I jumped on it was quite different, and one could imagine easier. Regardless of the different means discovered to solve a problem, it seems, in my opinion, that once the route is in, chipped or not, it is best to leave it alone. We all agree that chipping is to be avoided, but let's not elevate this issue in the context of Big Dog to any higher degree than it already has been. It is a high quality route and it is worthy of the atention that serious climbers can give it.

By Richard M. Wright
From: Lakewood, CO
Aug 17, 2001

I concur with Steve that chipping does not solve the problem that nature gave us, and gave all of us, and this ALL OF US is a big emphasis here. I can anticipate a cycle of chipping and repairing that does no one any good. I think we are best off simply to avoid the process in the first place. If the route has been chipped, then make note of it. If it has been climbed without the chipped holds, then make note of that as well. A cycle of chipping and repairing over-reaches what is important, doesn't it?

By Richard M. Wright
From: Lakewood, CO
Aug 20, 2001

Perhaps you are right, Steve. However, repair seems like a touchy process. It's difficult to restore rock to its natural state, and that is why I feel it better to leave the artificial chips and pockets alone. Furthermore, and I won't start dropping names, there are many routes in the Front Range that are fully artificial, so where does the process of repair start and stop? And where does the process of condemning the chipper/driller start and stop? Personally, I believe that chipping and drilling is anathema to our development of routes on natural rock. We have lots of gyms where fully artifical construction can be exercised. It seems to me that we are better off urging our colleagues to respect the medium and either solve the problem that nature gave us or leave it alone. Frankly, I for one am ambivalent. You can fill in a pocket, but you can't fill in a chipped edge. Furthermore, some of the routes created by authors who have on occasion chipped or drilled are brilliant natural lines, and I for one, have no interest in castigating these people.

By Anonymous Coward
Aug 25, 2001

Ok it may just be me, but it appears that there is a large skull shape made by the features of the rock, the eyes are about at the 4th bolt.

Anyone else see it?????????

By MARSHALL BRITTLE
Sep 30, 2001

Does it all really matter? It's only a crag, that's rock, ya know? Make the route your own and call it good, or bad if you don't like it. The world is still spinning, and there are many routes to send on many different crags. Marshall.

By Quinn Stevens
From: Denver, CO
Dec 5, 2001

"A route that has modified holds, and then climbed free without using those modified holds, will not be classified as modified."

Sounds like this route's chipped page needs to be removed- especially because the natural beta is easier and IMO, more intuitive.

By Ken Trout
From: Golden, CO
Dec 22, 2001

I love this route! One of the few routes in Colorado to make the "As Good As Maple Canyon, Utah" list. This is a tricky route to rate because it is so steep, with big moves to great holds that redline the fun meter all the way, and a rest that not everyone uses. I always step right, one move, just after pulling onto the headwall above the crux. That way I'd give the route solid 5.12a. Mark's rating is meant to reflect not cowering on the balancy rest sloper.

By Anonymous Coward
Feb 5, 2002

It's .12-. I've done the move without the drilled pocket. Please don't destroy good natural routes because you can't pull them, even if it costs you the FA.

By Colin McGraw
Feb 6, 2002

Cleaning is fine, but it shouldn't involve a finger-size drill bit.

PS- Do you seriously not know what the "climbing community" as a whole thinks of you?

By Chris Cavallaro
Feb 6, 2002
rating: 5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ E5 6b

I think that Colin should keep to himself, until he figures out for what reasons he climbs for.. Alan Nelson should be graciously thanked, never ridiculed for his contributions to the 'climbing community.' Colin asks 'do you want to know what the community thinks of you,' and I for one am incredibly thankful to be able to climb such incredible routes in CCC. I guess Colin has never climbed an Alan Nelson classic (yeah right.) In the last week, I have seen more bickering than actual route comments. What a waste of a valuable resource. If this is what climbing is coming too, (arguments over chipping/downgrading), then I think i'll pick up bowling..

By Jim Redo
Aug 19, 2002

12a.

By chris deulen
From: Merriam, Kansas
Aug 13, 2004
rating: 5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ E5 6b

Great beta with the mystery calf hook after the "volleyball" hold.

By Anonymous Coward
Sep 7, 2004

It cracks me up when people see bolting routes as doing a "service" to the climbing community. Climbing new routes whether sport or trad is a self serving and really fun pursuit (though hard work). I'm usually thinkin"wow I wish I had gotten to do that FA" not "O gee thanks for climbing that first". It's just weird when first ascentionts are lauded for establishing routes. They're doing it for themselves. I think "the community" is the last thing on their minds.

By Steven Lucarelli
From: Moab, UT
Jun 19, 2008
rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ E5 6a

It's easy to say "just don't use the manufactured holds" but when your climbing the route onsight like I did yesterday you don't have much choice. Unless your strong enough to inspect each hold before you use it to make sure it's natural.

I don't know if trying to restore the holds is a good option or not because who knows what they were like originally and there is already enough epoxy on the route to make it an eye-sore. But the chipped holds are disappointing especially if your getting on the route for the first time.