Just want to point out a side effect of the bolting ethic - I've been climbing sport routes, mostly in Boulder Canyon and looking for some easy ones I can lead. There are lots of 5.9 and harder routes that are fully bolted. When you get the easier, 5.6-5.7 routes, it seems there is often a place to place trad pro, so bolts are skipped there. This makes it very hard to find pure sport leads in that range. The range is definitely a beginner range - and a beginner is likely to have limited skills and equipment.

I led Chouette (5.6) yesterday, and it is real runout in the middle. True, it is easy climbing, but I would have appreciated a bolt in the middle where there was plenty of places for trad protection. Leading a nearby 5.8 was much easier.

Now I do plan to get some trad gear and learn to place it, but that's in the future. And I know of plenty of places to go practice, without having looked for them yet. There's lots! But that's the future.

The bottom line is that it is hard to find many places for sport and/or safe TR placing in the 5.6/5.7 range. It's kind of annoying and discouraging to search thru the sport routes and find the number of mixed routes that are in this range. I'm afraid this will bring out the many rants about bolting I've seen on this forum, but would prefer to see a discussion of the effect on beginning climbers.

dude. check out stuff near Golden. Clear Creek, Lookout Mountain, and North Table.

Have you tried the 'Route Finder' at the bottom of the main page of this site? I just entered a find for 'Sport' routes ranging from '5-3 to 5-8' in Boulder Canyon.... 52 results. Might be a good starting point.

Best of luck. Have you checked out the Watermark in BoCan, it has a couple beginner 5.8 sport routes.

Lol, bolting flames...

and Moderate Route flames....

It seems that here in Utah, for the most part, they figure that you'll do a couple of 5.6 and 5.7, then get really really bored, and be sufficiently skilled enough that you'll move on to the one or two 5.8, then start cranking 5.10 right away, so that's about the ratio in any area, in general:

1 - 5.6
1 - 5.7
2 - 5.8
3 - 5.9
17 - 5.10
27 - 5.11
49 - 5.12

So I guess you drive around a bit, do your few < 5.10 in a day or two, then start cranking on the 5.10's.

One comment though, and I know I'm toast now, but in climbing with a few groups of people, I'm surprised at the number of people aiding 5.10 subtly without realizing it.

Hanging on draws while clipping, pulling past the draws either on the biner or hangdogging past it. Ethics are ethics and as individual as the climber I guess.

So keep that in mind as you get to the 5.10's.

(along a more serious line of thought: it's probably just as well to do some runouts on a 5.6 to get a feel for it)

Well now that is just terrible that the rock or the guys who bolted it just didn't provide enough of the kind of routes that you want to climb.

There are run outs on routes at every grade. Accept it or avoid those routes.

Alternatively, partner up with a stronger climber and follow/toprope.

^^^ Caughtinside is a hangdogger, ask him.

Wayne, go over to Avalon and Watermark, you'll like the 5.7 and 5.8 routes over there - they seem to climb a bit easier than the grades.

Try the Bihedral too. There are several prodigiously bolted 5.8s and 5.9s that are soft for the grade. The crux is actually the fourth class approach to the base of the climbs.

Also, try not to shy away from harder sport climbs than you feel you can do. The beauty of a sport climb is that you won't fall far and your gear won't pull out. And the best way to become a stronger climber is to try harder climbs. Be careful but be bold.

Thanks for the suggestions, I did forget about Table Top, which now that it's not an oven up there would be good. And Watermark is good also. Have to check out Bihedral still.

There is a companion post in Rocky MT area for kid climbs, and it was what led me to post this. I've got a list of areas to check out, and that was the point of that post. This post was more about the following observation and it's impact:

The routes I want to climb are 9/10a. When I search Boulder Canyon for sport in that range, I can find over 100, and about 1/3 seem to be mixed, the rest bolted. That's fine, I can do the bolted ones and there are plenty. But when I was looking for easy (5.6/5.7) routes to take others on (in particular my son), I did a sport search in Boulder Canyon, and there were only 14 and more than half of those are mixed.

I do understand some of the reasons that are mentioned above for this. Just pointing out the side effect. The result is that I can go to Riviera and happily lead a bolted 5.9 but find the bolted 5.6 dicey. And from studying route descriptions here, I could repeat that experience quite easily. Is that really the way it should be?

This is not a result of sport climbing ethics; it has always been the case that easy, bolted face climbs are in short supply. For example, there are very few traditionally bolted (i.e., sporty not sport) routes in the 5.6 range at Joshua Tree or Suicide, even though there are many bolted faces in the 10 and up range.

The good news is that sport grades are nothing like trad grades, and noone should care about the style you climb them in. Check out Avalon, Tonnerre, Watermark, and lower Animal World and set your sights on 8s and 9s.

Wayne, when I started climbing about 2 years ago I was also looking for fully bolted 5.9 and under routes since I didn't own or know how to properly place trad gear at the time. It wasn't long before I got into trad because it opened up SO many more opportunities, and it's so damn fun (cracks, multipitch routes, alpine climbs). I'd suggest purchasing a set of stoppers in the near future and learning to place them. Some sport routes just need a small amount of supplemental gear, and this is an inexpensive start. You'll also find that longer runners are helpful when there are features such as horns or chockstones that you can sling between bolts. Before you know it, you might become a gear junkie and have dreams about crack climbing... :)

Uh, I hope you guys are referring to the type of crack found in rock such as granite or sandstone, that you place SLCD's in for protection. Because sometimes my words get twisted on these forums...

I have no idea what it means...merely the intriguing result of strategic deletions :)

I have a feeling that's a result of those that think easy sport climbing is an oxymoron. You can have easy/well protected climbing, either on bolts or gear, but if the goal is primarily to ascend the route vs experiencing the physical challenges of performing the moves on the route, then it may be hard pressed to call that "sport" climbing, not say that's right or wrong.

Sorry, I'm refering to rock only in this thread. Didn't mean to get you excited. But......

Another great place for some pretty easy sport routes: Jurassic Park outside of Estes Park. There's a great 5.6 called Coloradoddity that's fun and long (95ft according to Mountain Project)! There are also other sport routes in the 5.7-5.9 range that are fun. A great place to head to on warm summer days!