After leading the first pitch on the Odyssy in the Superstitions I came to a 1/4 inch spinner and got in one micro wire for a belay, I yelled down to my partner, " Don't slip, the belay is crap!" That way he could feel as worried as I was while belaying him. My old climbing buddy used that same line on me years earlier. He said, "I just wanted you to feel gripped, too."

My first climb, slipping and scared, I grabbed the rope.
Said my seasoned climbing partner: "Illegal use of hands. Five yards." as he fed out about 10' of slack. Don't think I've grabbed the rope since.

By the way Bill, did you go to Huntington Beach High School?

"its 5.3 the way I do it" - Jimmy Dunn

"there's no trick to climbing 5.12, just quit your job and climb every day" - Peter Gallagher

A seasoned Devil's Lake hardman in response to me asking him about the quality of the pitons protecting the Needle's Eye (SD) runout finish: "They're good - if you don't fall on them."

many years ago when I went to the Red for the first time, it was late autumn and I thought it was hot. knowing that 'old school mentor' Doug had grown up in Kentucky, I asked him what it was like there in the summer...

"It's f@cking Cambodia, man." I think this is the only time I've ever heard him swear.


P.S. I don't actually consider Doug old or crusty

Dingus McGee "If you aren't flying you aren't trying" as I headed up the crux pitch of Casper College. Only fell twice that summer at Devil's Tower and he was right I should have been pushing harder grades.

Jbak, not that he is crusty or old or even a character but it is a fun quote. "Quit yakking and start attacking" to some guys that wanted to put off the inevitable battle to redpoint a route.

"Climbing and 'trying not to fall' are not the same thing."

Wanderinfree wrote:
"Climbing and 'trying not to fall' are not the same thing."

Personally, I couldn't disagree more and this got me thinking about my own climbing style.
I learned to climb on Chouinard Stoppers and Hexes, back in '71 at Taylors Falls and Devils Lake. Two areas that are not notable for their wealth of trad placements.
From the very beginning, I've always felt that climbing is all about control, though hallucinagenic ascents in thwe early '80's might seem to contradict this sentiment.
To me, falling is the antithesis of climbing, so I have never taken a fall. Let me explain.
Technically, yes, I have fallen, since any time I have hung on gear I have considered it a fall. However, in thirty-seven years of climbing, I have never merely popped off in an uncontrolled fashion. I have never blown out a hold or accidentally slipped or missed a move.
I have, on countless occasions, downclimbed to my last piece and hung (technically a fall in my book).
I know that most climbers of today view my approach to the sport as self-limiting. It has been common knowledge for decades that if you're not falling, your not pushing yourself hard enough, especially when sportclimbing This is fine for other people, but it has never carried any weight for me.
I have done a little bit of sport jumping, like Dan Osman, but nothing quite so huge or dramatic. I have, once or twice, intentionally taken a clean fall just to show my partners that it is not fear that prohibits me from falling. I have done some high altitude freefalls while skydiving.
The no fall approach is just my own personal approach to the sport, since I consider falling to be anti-climbing.
I have climbed some pretty hard routes back in the day. I used to climb a lot of way-run-out .12's before I was an over the hill has been.
I am curious. Are there any others out there who share my approach to climbing, or am I the only one who views falling as the ultimate failure, the loss of control?

[quote feature not working...] Tom said: "From the very beginning, I've always felt that climbing is all about control...

Are there any others out there who share my approach to climbing, or am I the only one who views falling as the ultimate failure, the loss of control?"

Really interesting Tom. For me, the joy of climbing is trying to do a series of moves at my physical limit. To find that limit, I have to fall. Often.

That's not quite the opposite of your approach, but it's definitely divergent. I can understand the joy that could come from the kind of control and confidence you describe. Never reach for and just plain miss a hold? Sweet! That's some serious skill. But for me, it doesn't match the feeling of sticking that haaaard move that I wasn't sure I could do.

I climb like Tom. I prefer to do all of my falling in the gym where I can train. When I'm outside I'm enjoying the environment, my company, and I love feeling safe, strong, and confident. I rarely put myself in a position where I think I may fall, not that I'm afraid to, it's just not my idea of fun.

But to each his own, my partner is the opposite. He loves to pull hard outside and only goes inside to appease me. That's why he leads and I don't usually. It gives him the exhilaration he seeks, and it gives me a nice toprope! :)

Q: How do I find/keep a mentor?

From: chosser

Find an old trad climber to second for. Old trad climbers are best because the've probably been climbing a while and haven't died. This is a good role model.

If he/she is a strong old trad climber, so much the better, they can winch you up cruxes. This allows you to lie about climbs you flashed when you are an old trad climber.It's sort of a tradition.It also gives you time to hang out on the rope and inspect placements while you remove the jammed-up opposing stoppers that he/she hung on at that very crux.

Old trad climbers can usualy be found wandering aimlessly at bouldering areas at the base of climbs looking for any excuse to ascend the rotten run-out chimney that never has anyone on it. In toproping areas, look at the top of the cliff. If the bolts are clipped with tied 1 inch webbing and then backed up to a tree 30feet away, follow that 11 mil rope down and you'll find a trad mentor to be proud of.

From: Sue

1. become an utterly bomber and attentive belayer.

2. be as fit as possible.

3. Have a reliable car and offer to drive

4. offer to buy (quality) beer, no pisswaterswill.

5. be as non annoying as possible.

6. never complain about how long it takes your fearless leader to lead a pitch even if you are freezing/baking, you're gripped out of your brain, your feet are numb and you have to pee.

7. learn to clean gear and never ever leave a piece behind.

8. don't drop things including rocks.

9. Try not to be a cheap bastard.

10. never utter the phrase: "uh my gym manager says to do it this way"

11. be humble.

12. be realistic and honest about your abilties, when recruiting potential partners. try the automated partner directory.

13. talk to people. be alert to the possibility of potential climbing partners on those occasions when you are at the crag. If they seem like nice people and seem competent give 'em your email address and say if you ever need a partner drop me a mail.

14. It probably helps to be a chick.

15. good luck.

http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/partners.shtml#mentor

Quote or phrase I've heard by Crusty Old School Mentors, "Oh S***, the piece held". Guess anyone that's been climbing for a while has heard it also. Formula for falling is litte bit of this and a little bit of that and a whole lot of you know what. If the fall is good, as they usually are in the land of roofs, the gear is not questionable, and you have a whole lotta faith in your partner, you are more likely to go for the fall on a good day. The formula is a bit complex for me and I suppose there are a few others that feel that way too. As was heard from my friend Soo at Ralph Stover on a cold and windy day, " You climb, you fall, you warmed up".

Ok, I've got one, Rob Slater was just back from doing Wyoming Sheep Ranch and told me; "Anything that can free climbed can be done on aid, and it won't be as strenuous". Spoken with that semi crazed grin, naturally.

Tom wrote: "I am curious. Are there any others out there who share my approach to climbing, or am I the only one who views falling as the ultimate failure, the loss of control?"

Tom I am a young climber and I totally agree with a no falling mentality. I don't see the advantage of top roping "hard" climbs to get better. I want to be in the habit of not falling, rather than falling over and over again. I want practice climbing versus falling. Then when it comes down to it and you can't fall you are used to it. Maybe it has to do with ones style of climbing, for me freesoloing and runout leads, while frightening, give me the greatest satisfaction.

Man! I'd never seen that video, what fun. I've found myself trying to hear Charlies' voice in my head for a while now, and that helped a lot. The real surprise was the postcard to Kyle at the end. Has anyone seen/heard from Kyle Copeland? Know how he is?

Me to any number of beginning climbers... "No your other left".




And the Black Canyon quote was originally..."A rack and a rope and a little bit of dope".



Tom your ethics of climbing is exactly the way we used to climb. No chalk, no hangs, no excuses.

"I shouldn't hear your feet"!

my first day in La Grave ski guiding my mentor was Doug Coombs and he asked me if I could work because they needed someone quick, I had been there for 3 days and did not know a thing, I had only skied some big shit with Doug and a late friend Chad Vanderham.

I said to Doug I don't know can I, He said yeah you can do it. After explaining that I did not have insurance or a cell phone yet and hardly new were to take clients He said

"It's easy, just lie and act like you know everything and follow tracks"

"B2 or not B2, That is the question." Back in the day before V-ratings.

Mike Brooks:
"Recently, in the last 35 years. BIRD!!!"

It was one of my first multi-pitch climbs in Eldo (Icarus) and we (brenta & myself) were sitting on the belay ledge below the last pitch, getting absolutely battered by the wind. Being new, I was cooked mentally and didn't want to tackle the infamous exposure on the last pitch.

me: "So if you lead this pitch, do I have to follow?"...hoping that he'd pick up on my not-so-subtle hint.

brenta looked at me stone faced and deadpanned, "If you come to the dance, you must dance."

(I'm with Tom)