ATC guide vs. GriGri 2

Looking for any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, or other on the use of a GriGri over guide or vise versa? Pros? Cons? Thinking about sending my GriGri back and getting a guide instead! TIA

Petzl Reverso.. Easier nose to release the auto blocking setup vs the ATC Guide that takes a small runner or the nose of a binner. GriGri are great.. but best to learn first on a tube style belay device. Gri Gris often encourage poor technique when it comes to "assisted breaking and the miss conception of AUTO breaking. It really all depends on what your doing with it. If you're gym climbing consult the front desk I'm sure they would let you try out both and add their .02

Grigri: auto (or "assisted" if you want to use their lawyers' preferred term) locking while belaying from below

Guide: lighter, double ropes/raps, less force on the pro. Non-locking other than top belay.

You could get something like a MegaJul or Smart Alpine for a compromise of the above benefits.

None of the current belay devices are perfect. If you're not doing multi pitch w/ rappels, climbing on doubles, or trad climbing on typically suspect pro I don't see why you wouldn't use a Grigri. If you're doing those things then you're left with a compromise. I use a Grigri 99% of the time.

Trevor, this subject has been beaten to death here and never ceases to provoke flames. Get out the popcorn.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages:

grigri: heavier, assisted locking function still has to be used properly. There is some potential extra protection if your belayer becomes incapacitated, the device may lock in a fall (desirable). Can be somewhat steep learning curve to learn to pay out rope to a leader safely as it can tend to lock. And you can lose control of the belay if device is held open in fast rope payout mode. Easy to misuse. Beware of those comments that state uncompromisingly that grigri is an auto lock device and unfallible without brake hand on the brake rope. This is directly contrary to Petzl's instructions and warnings. Look up petzl's youtube videos where they show failure modes due to improper technique. Works best in the mod range of rope diameters recommended by Petzl.

Can't use it simply for multi pitch double rope rappels though there are techniques for one partner to rap a single strand with grigri, and second use a double rope rap method. To me this is a bit more contrived, but it works.

ATC guide: Lighter weight, does not have assisted locking function, so if belayer is incapcitated there is nothing to hold the brake strand. Creates less impact force on sketchy pro and climber in lead falls. However, this effect is debatable once enough rope is out, i.e. dynamic stretch of rope overcomes this drawback. In guide mode, double slots allow bringing up two followers simultaneously. This is a common use by guides. Converting to lowering a follower from guide mode is PITA, but can be done safely. It is a technique that takes practice.

Both work when used properly, and accidents have occurred with both. Relative safety issues with both are arguable to the nth degree as has happened perpetually on MP.

I use both in different settings, Grigri almost entirely for single pitch, and almost always carry the ATC anyway

get both.

csproul wrote:get both.

how about the new edelrid device? I have been considering it one because the price and honestly I am not crazy about the gri gri... Being newerish there is not as many reviews..what do people think. I like it because it seems pretty damn versatile but I have not used it so I would love to hear

mountainhick wrote: Simply and well stated!

Edelride Mega Jul!!!!! A great device. $30, less than the GriGri....light.

Can't think of any reason why you shouldn't own both. Both have great pros and cons, and are part of almost every climbers quiver.

I agree with the get both comments. I have the Petzl Reverso and a GriGri2 and they both come in handy.

I love the Edelride Mega Jul. I have all three and don't use the ATC guide or the gri gri much anymore.

Have you ever used a Gri-Gri?

Why is the fall factor so much more with a GriGri? I have used a GriGri a little bit but usually use tube style (atc). I like the option of both that might be what I do! Appreciate the comments!

Are you a newer climber?

If so start off with a tube style device

Folks who learn off grigris tend not to develop good brake hand technique

And even when yr using a grigri constantly, its a good idea to keep using an ATC every now and then to keep their brake hand technique in practice

If you look closely at folks who belay with a grigri all the time youll often notice errors in their braking technique every now and then ... The subconscious knowledge that theres "autobraking" requires a decent amount of diligence not to get lazy

There have been brave enough some souls who have come forward on MP to admit this with near misses

Once you get the proper brake hand technique a grigri works fine

;)

Trever O'Brien wrote:Why is the fall factor so much more with a GriGri?

I would say I'm new yes. I have and do pretty much use a tube style device. The main reason I am intrigued by the GriGri is for belaying from the top off the anchor. I like the tube style just for that reason: to keep skills sharp, and also less to go wrong with device it self (maintenance free so to speak). I'm just more accustomed to 2 rope raps and like having that availability. Like I said before I'll probably get a guide or reverso to use also.

Trever O'Brien wrote:Looking for any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, or other on the use of a GriGri over guide or vise versa? Pros? Cons? Thinking about sending my GriGri back and getting a guide instead! TIA

Stick to the ATC style device as yr new

When yr fully confident that you can catch lead whippers over and over again, can rap confidently and safely, and dont have any messes or fumbles lead belaying on your first few multis ... Then a grigri would be fine

Doesnt mean you should return yr grigri ... Youll use it eventually

Be aware though that supple and thinner ropes work better in the new grigri ... If you have a maxim or mammut ~10mm+, once they get older and stiffer feeding can be a biatch

For top belaying every climber should know how to use a redirect and a munter before using autoblock ... One of these days youll drop yr device and youll have yr partners plain old ATC or no device at all .... And youll need it should u want to lower/belay

Story #1

- a few years ago my partner climbs to the top of a pitch ... And i hear cling, clang, clung ... My first though was "he better not have dropped a cam" ... Second thought "he better know a munter" ... After a long period i hear "ummm climb when ready" ... I make sure i dont fall on that pitch and sure enough hes belaying me up with a body belay since he didnt remember the munter

Story #2

- twice in the last few years ive gotten to the top of a pitch and my partners have setup the autoblock wrong ... Now they were fairly new to multi so i showed em the redirect method on the ground and told em to use that ... In the first case he decided to try something new because he saw it on youtube ... In the second case he copied what the party ahead of us were doing

Anyways the gist of this rant is skills over fancy gear ... Practice the few skills on the basic devices well over and over again as a newer climber before using "advanced" gear

Another final story ... The week prior we were at the crag and this girl was belaying with a grigri but swapping her hands with every pull and push ... And shes wasnt "new"

;)