There I was with my 50 meter rope...
Just a heads up, someone has taken the slings and rappel rings from the last rappel to the ground on the Wasteland! Unfortunately, I didn't have the equipment to replace the station.
I'm curious... why would one do this and would they like to explain their actions on this forum?

JF

They do things like that because they are cheap, selfish SOBs. You know, the same dick wads who takes hangers from bolted climbs. A pox on all of the. May they rap off their ropes a fall 100 feet.

Greg:

It's like going out to Bobcat Boulder to find the hangers missing when you want to teach some one. Or topping out and finding the belay anchors stolen. I mean, how much are some bolt hangers going to cost? What irks me is people not caring about the consequences of their actions. Karma is circular, I've always said. Just remember, don't take what isn't yours and every one remains happier!

So now we have to drag a welder and chains up with us to set rap anchors just to keep people from carting stuff off?

Isn't the last rappel with an anchor through a tunnel in the rock?
Like it says in Kerrys guide
When we did this rappel in December, there was no webbing at this point. I figured that was just the way it was supposed to be-- thread the rope through the tunnel-- it pulled ok. I'm surprised nobody spoke up about this until now if this is not the way it was supposed to be.

Added later to make perfectly clear: If it was supposed to be fixed with webbing and rings, someone should not have taken it without replacing it. I'm not backing those guys up on this!

Added later as an afterthought: Anyone who climbs the Wasteland has runners and biners, and therefore, could leave this stuff if threading the tunnel with the rope didn't seem like a good idea to them. I'm also curious as to why one shouldn't rap with the rope threaded through the tunnel.. which is what everyone who climbed this route in the last 4+ months has done.

Jeff,

It is wrong that someone removed all the webbing from an established rappel anchor without replacing it. Period. It could really spell bad news for another party.

Wasteland was the first route I climbed in Cochise Stronghold. When I rappelled to that tunnel, I was pretty sure I had to stop there, because the rope wouldn't reach a lot farther (I only had 1 rope, following Kerry's book), but there was no webbing. I admit that it looked screwed-up to me, and it was an extra annoying step to anchor myself. I also was not about to fix gear (I could've cut my slings or rope, or left my cordelette, and left biners on it) at a cliff that I was not a local at, unless I felt I had no other option that wouldn't greatly compromise our safety. It seemed strange, but solid. The rope pulled ok. We got down no problem. The rope appeared undamaged. The granite rock was likely undamaged.

I've seen some strange anchor "ethics" in other places [routes at J-Tree where you top out with pile of boulders for an anchor; spires in the Needles (S. Dak.) with no anchor bolts so that it is mandatory that you simul-rappel; towers near Moab that have no anchors on the summit at all and require that you downclimb the summit blocks; canyoneers who rappel off natural tunnels like this in sandstone slot canyons]. I would not rappel off a tree in this manner as it would damage a tree, and I am conscientious of where ropes are on sandstone which easily forms grooves. As this was my 1st climb in Cochise, I figured this was just the way it was. I did not want to go against local or leave-no-trace ethics, just like I wouldn't drill a bolt on my first climb in a new area.

I bet Wasteland gets climbed at least 3 times a week. Probably 40+ parties have used this rappel in the same manner I did in the last few months. Not one of them wanted to chop their rope or leave their slings or cordelette.

You're a credential'ed guide, and a local. I was just asking for advice here; like everyone I am still learning tricks. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I really enjoyed climbing at Cochise Stronghold, and I hope I can return and see some more of it. Thanks sincerely, George.

I remember the last rap being from a tree about 70 feet above the start. It is smooth polished rock with a layer of fine sand...very slippery, right above that tree. I've done Wastleand three times and never rapped off the rock tunnel, because the tree had numerous slings around it.

George,

I was just stating some facts about the rappel anchor for future parties and the culprits who took down the anchor. I was not attacking you personally and would like to apologize if my comments came across that way. You did the right thing... descended safely!
I appreciate your comments and input. I personally will replace the anchor on my next visit.

JF

Perhaps with two ropes you could get to the ground from the tree, it's well over 100 feet to the ground from there. From that tree, a single 50 meter rope will just barely make it to the last rappel anchor (80 feet), which is the tunnel with the threaded slings and rap rings.

JF

Greg:

Yes, long ago we carried two 11mm x 50m ropes. Big, heavy, fat. And I didn't have a chalk bag then either. My first harness was a Whillans which we were afraid to fall in because a strap went right up in front of your manly package. A real potential ouch situation. Thankfully we have the modern era. I now own a 9.5mm...you'd think I was a sport climber. HA HA!

We used the tree about a year ago for the final rap. The Wasteland is such a fine climb. One of my favorites.

To Jeff and the all the others who've paid for, installed, and maintained the bolts, belay anchors, and rappel stations in Cochise Stronghold-- THANK YOU! I really appreciate the work and effort you've all put in to making this a great place to climb.

I second that. Thanks for keeping things safe down there!

Ok, it's good to see this thread get back on track. We've certainly established that it's just plain wrong to remove rappel anchors/webbing from a route...not sure if it warrants wishing somebody to rap off the ends of their ropes so they fall 100 feet, but I digress.

One thing that has gone unanswered so far is whether or not threading the rope directly through the tunnel on Wasteland - specifically on Wasteland - is OK. Clearly, we know that threading the rope directly through the tunnel can be done safely and we can say with some surety that erosion of the rock will be minimal, so aside from it being outside the norm and perhaps causing slightly faster wear to ropes, is there any reason to place webbing on the tunnel? Could this be a chance to minimize our impact further?

You can definitely rap from the last tree to the ground with a 60 meter rope.

I just climbed the route last week and one member of my party removed a single piece of webbing from the tunnel in question while rapping by on two 60's. It is my opinion that it would be safe to thread a rope through this tunnel without risking any damage either during rappel or in the process of pulling the rope. That being said, the sling was a bright blue eye sore on an otherwise clean expanse of rock. In general I would frown upon the removal of established and necessary fixed rappel stations. However, in this case, IMO, there was no need for the fixed anchor to be there. Nature had already fixed the rappel for whomever chose to use it. In the current climate of closures and regulations, it would seem most prudent for us to minimize the visual impact of our sport.

Cheers, Stu

This has raised an interesting issue. Do climbers have an ethical duty to bring a long or two longer ropes to minimize the blight of intermediate rap anchors for those who only want to bother trailing one shorter rope? To be frank, I think the answer is yes.

We had 1 60m rope (a decision motivated by laziness, and because the guidebook said only 1 rope was needed). I remember thinking that it did not reach from the previous tree, and thought that it was necessary to stop at the tunnel (as shown in the topo). But it may have almost reached the ground, or it might have reached to a place from which I could have easily downclimbed. Or maybe I was just wrong in what I perceived. Stopping at the tunnel seemed a better option than possibly rappelling to the end of the rope and coming up short.

Usually on rappels on an unfamiliar cliff, I try to follow the topo unless it contradicts my judgement. Sometimes the guidebook authors know something you don't...

Also consider: in many instances, doing more shorter rappels is recommended over longer rappels (especially on slabby terrain with some bushes, trees, and horns.. like.. the Wasteland?), to avoid getting a rope stuck.