I'm grateful that the climbing areas were saved, I'm glad the area was saved just because it's a beautiful place. I mountain bike out there all the time (in fact, more so than climbing the last few years). But if every time I wanted to go mountain biking, I had to battle to get into the trailhead to go biking, I'd eventually just go somewhere easier. It doesn't take a lot to project where ONE main access point on the north side is going to go.

Been to Echo Canyon at Camelback lately?
Been to Pinnacle Peak lately (much less hassle than Echo, but still)?
It might take a while, but why would this one access point end up different?

I'm not trying to be difficult or controversial here. But there's virtually no development in this area for homeowners or HOA's to complain about positioning of trailheads, so how come we're going the minimalist approach? I don't know...developer influence maybe?... but to have one main access point on the north side leads to one simple outcome to me. Might take years, but might not. Pinnacle Peak parking lot was overflowing and gripes about the parking situation coming into the city of Scottsdale soon after it reopened. Is that where we want to go if we can avoid it?

Really comes down to how bad you're going to want to battle with hikers/equestrians/whoever to get into that lot later as the one access point to go climbing. I guess you could also hike up from the Gateway Visitors Center if you don't mind the five mile uphill grunt to get to Tom's Thumb.

Actually the City anticipated much of this(within the confines of the "Preserve" mandates). If you all recall the recent Pinnacle Peak Resort case and the problems over the years with parking at Pinnacle Peak (actually the street parking was part of the original master plan but the limitation of a parking lot sized to only 40 cars was the problem), the City finally got it and authorized the new developer to be responsible for putting in 200 or so parking places, the amount requested by the Friends of Pinnacle Peak Park.

Learning from that experience, the plans for the trail heads for the McDowell Sonoran Preserve have been pretty well set for about 10 years. Each trail head was selected and designated to have a certain capacity. See http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/preserve.asp
from the City's web site for more information on the proposed trail heads. We have tried over the years to obtain more access, but it will not be forth coming.

Yes, there will be a ton of more development in north Scottsdale. All along 128th street new subdivisions will be doing in (in fact, a new 40 acre subdivision was just approved on the NE corner of El Paraiso and 128th Street).

Therefore, what we need to do is to ensure that we avoid the Pinnacle Peak (and Camelback) nightmare of inadequate parking. We need to work for the fully designed North Access Area with sufficient parking to accomodate all the parking anticipated for all the users.

The City plan is for the North Access Area to be a major community trail head similar to Lost Dog Wash (up to 200 parking spaces). Unfortunately, we probably should support as full build out of that as possible while keeping it as environmentally friendly as possible.

Yes, it frosts me to no end to have private gated communities lining the boundary of the Preserve with the Preserve as a back-drop for multi-million dollar homes. There are only a half dozen or so access points for all of the 16,000 acres of the Preserve. I guess I make whatever peace with it I can by knowing that I can still climb there and that I can hike on the mountains at all.

Erik

to lighten up a little - the horses - interesting story and different angle.

the horses belong to George (i'll just use first name). George was actually a national Rodeo Champ of the 1960's. He still rides the range in a 1950's white pick up, that one day i found out there in a ditch. his brakes had blown out, so he just coasted around and worked into uphill grades until one day he couldn't get enough traction and lost it. all 4 tires were gone. i came across the truck and was worried because the glass in the windows was broken and one of the door had sprung loose from the coat hanger holding it to the frame. fortunately i got "S", the guy who lives in the lone house up there, who found George, got him home, and then took his tractor to retrieve the old white pick-me-up.

neat horses. pretty wild for sure. i love to look into their eyes. occasionally i see that mountain lion the horse fought off from the herd the night before...

one issue i have with my more hard core scottsdale preservation friends is - there is an effort underway to try to remove the horses in order to restore the Preserve to its pre-human days. Shame on them! I love them horses... Fortunately that item isn't going to happen soon and we can still enjoy sharing the range with George's best.

Greg is right. Just wait until 128th Street is paved, then all the pretty people can drive their Escalades, Volvo & BMW SUVs without getting them dusty. At least we have access until the sun sets every day.

Speaking of new developments out there, there are some suspicious roads and cul-de-sacs shown in google maps NW of 128th and Paraiso




google maps link here

Roman,
That's Serena Canyon. But... all of the private land in Scottsdale will be developed, and as soon as the lenders start funding again you will see bulldozers all up and down 128th Street. Yes, there are already planned and approved subdivisions on all of the private land in the immediate area. With land valuations at over $200,000 per acre, it's no wonder.
Let's give credit to the preservationists in Scottsdale for seeing that coming in the early 1990's and taxing themselves to buy the land in order to preserve it. The boundaries of the Preserve are on the hiking maps I linked above. It is highly unlikely that it will be possible to expand those boundaries. All else will be developed.

Marcy,
I'm pushing the City staff for the largest number parking places that the land planners see as the likely demand. I believe that it the lower end of the first stage will be at least 100 parking places, in a number of smaller parking "nodes" scattered between Sven Slab and Morrell's Wwall. At least that should minimize the impact. At any rate, the City has hired a land planner to lay out the North Access Area and we can have impact on what they come up with. (in the context of the Preserve mandates and the demand Scottsdale residents will also place on the area).
If anyone wants maps, etc., contact me offline at smorefil@aol.com.

Thanks for shedding additional light on this Erik.

I'm really surprised that the City might entertain the idea of such a large parking area, but I'm hopeful. I know the issue of "viewshed" has come up as an issue in the past (the idea that a large parking area could be seen as degrading the property values of the surrounding developments by it's very presence). I would think the best solution to the view issue would be the dispersion of 200 (or more) parking spots along a few access points which offer a much smaller visual footprint per area, but I guess that's not the way it will go.

Having said that, I'm fairly leery of all the eggs in one basket regarding the number of spaces in a single lot. By the time it's constructed, it will likely be too late for any other solution to be undertaken and that bothers me somewhat.

I'm in total agreement that if we can break the total number of parking spots into some smaller parking nodes that are scattered a little bit, it would help protect a bunch of things we're discussing. And I feel that we probably should swallow hard and try to get the largest number of parking spaces we can so climbers, and others, aren't squeezed out. 200 works for Pinnacle Peak and might be reasonable here.

how to help - one line of input you all have just made - I'll be sure to keep pushing that type of approach with city staff when I interact with them in my various roles with the City and associated groups. I will also be mentioning it to the current Preserve Commissioners who are the formal citizens oversight committee.

A couple of months ago when city staff hired the planner, they said they wanted to make sure that climbers were involved in the trail head design. I gave them the names on my mcdowell climbers advisory panel (you know - the gym owners, guidebook authors, first ascentionists, forum moderators, climbing store owners). They took that list and compiled it with a list of other folks who have contacted them (including guide services). I believe that their intent is to hold a small "focus group" of leading climbers who they can bounce ideas off of. The meetings will be more related to trail head design than to Preserve climbing issues, but we probably can use the occasion to reinforce what we feel about the bigger picture. They will probably be calling their list (I don't have any more say that what input they asked for already) for a meeting after the land planner has about 10% of the design done.

They will then take the feedback and incorporate it into the design plans they will take through their standard city planning and design approval processes. I think that construction for the North Access Area may still be 18 months or more off, but at least we are moving forward.

Is there any talk or discussion on access to Gardeners, Morrells, in respect to climber designated trails such as Pinnacle Peaks. Maybe this has been discussed, but I haven't read through all the posts. Or is it okay to just access it via the old climber trails, off this new one.

Personally, I like the climbers only sign and trail that is on Pinnacle Peak, as it keeps (as Tradster says) the pretty people away.

Ian, there is a description in the first few posts about where the climber's only trails split off of the named Tom's Thumb Trail.

Hi folks,
A great group of over 20 AMC'ers and McDowell Sonoran Preserve Stewards worked together today to place trail signs and markers at the trailheads to the Morrell Parking area for Morrell's Parking Area climbs and Morrell's Wall. They also placed signs at the trailhead for the Mesquite Canyon climbs (Girlie Man and Sven Towers areas). They also dug in and stabilized the climber paths. This was made possible by a grant from the Access Fund. All in all eleven trail signs were placed. It should make getting around a whole lot easier.
A special thanks all around.
Future projects will involve better signage for climbers in the Tom's Thumb cirque.
Rock on!
Erik

Quick question! I am taking some friends out tomorrow whom haven't climbed and I was thinking the Lost Wall would be a good spot to set up some TR's. Is the only way I can get to this now via the new trail and all the way around, or is there a more direct way using the original direct route?

Thanks,

Ian

Ian,
hmmmmm. I'm not sure Lost Wall would be best (assuming you have Phx Rock II and see what it involves you can decide). in order to top rope for beginners, the classic crag in Sven Slab. you can get to the top by scrambling around climber's left and traverse to the large eye-bolt. Also, it is possible to set up top ropes on Back to the Wall and the other 5.7 in Morrell's Parking area (now signed. go toward Lower Morrell Wall parking area and scramble to top of the crag).

personally I'd prefer taking relative newbies to Half and Half (versus Lost Wall - it's underneath Lost Wall so what follows fits both). Let me give you that approach. Go to the Tom's Thumb trailhead temporary parking lot (signed). Hike up the new Tom's Thumb trail about 1/4 mile (the whole hike to Tom's Thumb is 2.1 miles, so you are still at the bottom of the hill). At that 1/4 mile mark you will hit a sign post with the circular sign - TT3. that's the emergency marker there. A new climber's trail heads west from that point across the major wash (just keep moving ahead and looking for orange flagging). On the other side of the wash, it heads up a low ridge near the old Tom's Thumb parking. You will continue up hill past Fort McDowell (fin like rock crags). Keep going, and about half way up the hill you will be about level with Half and Half Wall (the big slab with the horizontal crack). A climber's path heads back left at that point and if you follow it you will arrive at a two-bolt anchor on top of Half and Half. There are a couple of other two-bolt anchor set ups you will see. From the main anchor it is a 30 meter rap into the base. Set up the top ropes on the bolted anchors and have fun. There are 3 to 4 5.5 to 5.7 type of climbs there.

However, if you really want to do Lost Wall (I love that 5.7 on the east face), continue on the original climbers trail before you turn off to Half and Half. Follow orange flagging and you will eventually top out. At that point, you will be at a bend in the trail with a large boulder on your left. If you follow the path past the right of that boulder you will be on top of Lost Wall. I'd rap from two bolts into a ledge with an additional two bolt anchor and do your thing from there. it is a good 30 meters to the bottom, so you might want to do a top belay to make sure you have enough rope for the climbs.
I know this all sounds a little confusing, but if you are out there looking at the crags it makes sense. I have the new McDowell rock climbing plan/map, as well as route photos of the various climbs I've mentioned, if you want to contact me off line at smorefil@aol.com.

have fun!
Erik

Perfect thanks Erik.

great, Ian.
have fun.
i'm not that savvy on these electronic communication things, but i'm trying below to send you (and anyone else who would like it) a link to the new official Preserve Rock Climbing Plan for the McDowells. it may provide further assistance.
best,
Erik
http://www.amcaz.org/Access_Issues/Toms%20Thumb%20Rock%20Cli>>>>>

I would like to thank all of the folks who have helped secure the climbing access in the McDowell Sonoran Preserve. Over the years we have lost too many great climbing areas to development (i.e. Troon Mountain, the Boulders, Lower East Wall at Pinnacle). It is not inconceivable that we could have lost the whole area to climbing.

I'd like to thank the Scottsdale voters, who sucked it up and voted in the necessary stuff to fund the purchase and saving of the entire area in an amazing burst of forethought.

Edit: come to think of it, I think the Scottsdale voters actually voted on two separate occasions for the funding the produced the preserve, so thanks twice!!

North Access Area McDowells

Trail Sign Installation

Wednesday, November 25, 2009

8:00 a.m. Meet at Tom’s Thumb trailhead, North Access Area - Head out in work parties to Install Trail Signs in Tom’s Thumb cirque

We will be installing the climber trail signage at pre-determined access points along main and climber trails. We will split into work parties with specific trail signs to install.

The City will provide all tools, etc. Just bring work gloves, personal items, food and water.

It would be a good idea to bring a larger pack (in which to put pre-measured bags of cement and water). A larger plastic bag to line your pack is suggested.

If you can come out and help, please contact Erik Filsinger at smorefil@aol.com.

Thanks, and see you there.
Erik Filsinger
AMC Land Advocacy Chair

Count me in Erik.

I'd love to help, but I work. Thanks guys!

I will see if I can get the time off to assist as well..
I will advertise on Facebook and on my website as well to drum up some help!
Your doing great things! We need to steal our piece of nature back from the ignorants that feel that take take take is a simple process of life... God Speed!

Thanks for doing this. I must work that day.

Wish I could help, but I'll be working as well. Thanks for your efforts!

great to hear from you all.
let's just meet at the dirt parking lot under Morrell's Wall (the Temporary north access area for the new Tom's Thumb trail). 8:00 a.m. Wed, the 25th.
if anyone needs directions, let me know (offline too at smorefil(at)aol(dot)com).
here is the latest and greatest conceptual map from the city of the climber trails in the north McDowells.

COS McDowell Rock Climbing Map Submitted By: ErikF on Nov 18, 2009