first off, holy shit susan. second,

Mark, I have plenty of Paramedic training and have done a lifes worth of High Angle Rescue seminars and actual work for the Discovery Channel, GoFastSports, Bridge Day, West Virginia...blah blah blah. I sorta thought I was on topic, but maybe I just got confused by the bickering and didn't understand your original point.

The pictures above are from this last September at the Royal Gorge Bridge. She hit the wall and shattered her leg on the Worlds Tallest Bridge(over 1,000'). Had her in a basket and delivered to paramedics in around 28 minutes. Handy thing traveling around with 1,400' of Blue Water static line and an equalized litter, eh?

You're also right on Mark, we didn't give a crap weather or not Melissa had insurance.

you were on topic, I thought.

I tried to post on a more general question of SAR & insurance.

Cool man, I quit drinking and my focus has been lagging. Seriously!

"KIRRA" HAS MY VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENCY SHOULD SHE DECIDE TO RUN FOR OFFICE! I THINK SHE WOULD MAKE A BETTER PRESIDENT THAN THOSE "WORMS" TRYING TO GET IN NOW. I THINK WE ARE ALL GOING TO NEED TO BE RESCUED FROM THEM, BUT THEN ANYONE PROBABLY WOULD BE BETTER THAN "BUSH."

RIP thread

You know, you folks in Arizona have some great weather this time of year. Why don't you go out and take advantage of it?

Excellent photos and a job well done, Hank!

To reiterate a point I made earlier:

I think it's important for seasoned climbers to consider keeping an eye on parties that seem to be getting into trouble. If such a party were receptive to help (I agree that some are not), a quick piece of beta or dropping a rope down from the summit may be a safe way to prevent the need for a full-blown rescue.

Beyond the obvious humanitarian result this achieves, there is another benefit: fewer rescues help preserve access.

I took my girlfriend out for her first Trad climb in the McDowells this weekend, on Hanging Gardens. It was well within her range but the fear got to her and there we a few problems, one of which were two cams she was not able to pull out, right before the crack trends right. The other was the amount of time it took her to complete the pitch. There was another party climbing right next to us, and they did not hesitate to ask a very simple question. Are you guys okay, do you need any help? From there point of view it very well looked like two inexperienced climbers, possibly getting in over their head. I appreciated their concern, as it is nice to see others looking out for fellow climbers. Needless to say we only did the first pitch, and I had to TR to retrieve the two cams.

Thanks, Ian. Good to hear that concern was expressed and that it was appreciated!

Kirra? Where did all of your posts go?

Delving more into the topic at hand; how about the point at which a determination of rescue assistance is necessary. The common sense rule of thumb is: "do no more harm".

Climbers are goal oriented & have a skill set of technical expertise that they can learn to capitalize upon with their equipment. There is also good balance between wilderness first aid that climbers can use to their advantage to get off the wall.

This is a hard position to explain but there is some point at which recreationalists can help the situation or they could make it worse.

Looking at injury & technical systems, where is the line? As you think about it, some situations are straight forward and some not easily defined and you come back to "it depends". If you watch the video from the Jenny Lake Rangers you get 4 distinct areas they look at for rescue: L.A.S.T. -- Locate, Access, Stabilize, & Transport.

As a climbing partner on the wall, locate & access aren't much of a consideration. Transport is a concern but this is where climbers can step it up by educating themselves with rigging systems in order to help their friend(s)/fellow climbers. Stabilize though is a concern.

What are some thoughts on good preparation for helping a climbing partner in need?

Sorry that took me so long Sooze, However it looks like the danger has passed. Who knows, however, where evil lurks?

Its a privilege I say.

Once I was on an expedition to the kitchen and a terrible thing happened to me. I started a base camp in bed. I certainly had the skills and an intimate knowledge of the terrain to make it to the kitchen. I've been on that route many times. Using my slippers I kicked steps over well-heated carpet to the colder and much slipperier tile surfaces on the second pitch to the kitchen. Once I got to the exposed counter buttress I established myself by the mixer and made lunch of a granola bar and then BAM: I'm choking on a granola bar. I could get a little air in and out, but the situation was dire. I told myself not to panic and calmed down and concentrated on wheezing through some hard-fought breaths.

At that point many would call for rescue, but I always say, if you get yourself into a situation it's your responsibility to get your self out. Likewise, if rescue was a right for everyone, then it would encourage people to choke on their granola bars more often. I set up a bivouac below the kitchen sink because I was getting dizzy and had to sit down. It was time for some of those self-rescue techniques that I always practiced, but fortunately never had to use till now. I went back to the counter and aimed my chest at the corner of the counter and SPLAT! Granola gunk was all over the mixer. After I coughed a bunch and got my breath I started the long haul back to the bedroom to lay down, but I cleaned up the mess on the mixer first because I have a leave-no-trace ethic.