If you want to see some awesome footage of Peregrines in flight and doing their stoop (dive), look for the PBS Nature show, Raptor Force.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/raptorforce/index.html
and a glimpse into the falcon cam at:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/raptorforce/soaring.html

Unbelievable footage. Unbelievable birds.

Now Eric, tell me how you really feel about this issue.
Don't hold back man, just let it out...

You're gonna have to rename Pair-a-Grins to Remove-the-Bans


Ahhh, one last point, it's not at all true that a single incident will have no effect.
Single mistakes can and have had far reaching ones.
As mentioned above, just look at Dean Potter's little feau paux .

In Tucson, back in the Save Campbell Cliff days, at one point in time, the land owner was considering trying to work with climbers to keep access to the cliff. Then one day he had a nasty interaction with some folks and that was pretty much that in terms of any possible negotiated solution. Guess who won out ?

The Butterfly effect can sometimes create some very unexpected consequences.

Yeah, the bans sometimes seem a bit "excessive." Gnt Mnt, close the hole cliff for a single pair ? Surely 2 of the 3 main areas could be left open without disturbing the cute little bastards.

But, sometimes when Da Man talks, da climbers have to listen (and obey, hey.)

And Bravo to Phil for having the stones to step up and admit his mistake. Never having made any (mistakes that is), I can only imagine how hard that is. Now I gotta go put ice on my tongue.

Unfortunately, the Land manager is the honcho. Years ago lots of bolting was going on in a place called Zonerland in the Superstitions by several young climbers. They completely ignored any land manager concerns and ripped out barrel cacti at the base of climbs, stomped on plant life, put in pretty shiny bolts rather than painting them to blend in, told the managers to basically f**k off to their faces.

Whoa, where did you get that information. And do people actually think that is what happened? That could not be FURTHER from the truth.

Ryan:

A great bit of it is true and you know it.

Yes, several times in the past, actually.

Good to know. Where did you get the information from your previous post because it isn't true and I don't know it. Yes there were a couple of people who went up there that had there own set of ethics other than the locals at the time, and they were pretty much shut down internally. Personally, I painted almost all the bolts in Zonerland proper before a scheduled meeting with the local and national rangers. The first thing we did was stand them in the middle of Zonerland and ask them to find a single bolt on their own and they couldn't. We then took them on a tour of the sorrounding other areas and they refused to walk on the animal trails we used, after watching them trample vegitation and not use the obvious trails I asked them to use the trails we used because they were obvious. They responded by saying they couldn't see the animal trails. Perhaps there is a bit of a myth sorrounding Zonerland. In retrospect I think Zonerland is still one of the most pristine and out of the way climbing areas in Arizona. If anything many of the routes are run out and under bolted to today's standards. To say that routes are squeezed in or overbolting happened in this area is absurd. Most importantly to say that we said f*** off to the rangers faces is an insult to those in the know. This myth was probably the reason a local branch of the Access Fund was organized hearing the wild tales of bolts everywhere and trash seaping from every crevice. This organization wanted to help and organized a big group armed with Hefty trash bags and knives to cut all the webbing left at anchors (pre-chains) What they found wouldn't even fill a quarter of a trash bag ( I don't even think it was climbers trash)and no webbing booty because no one could get to the top of the routes. It was a complete joke and still is to this day. It was and still is obvious that this ban and hype Zonerland recieved was not justified and product of gossip gone wild. Fred the original and sole complainer to the rangers was actually shooting at bolts with a rifle. He told me this when we actually ate lunch together up there. This was his personal stomping grounds and he wanted it to himself. That was the reason he was complaining. To get us out of his back yard. He stashed gear up there just like we did, only ours was called trash.

Lemmon? Falcons?

Um... maybe reread... you don't need approval to REPLACE a bolt on a one-for-one basis, just for NEW bolts (aka NEW routes).

I'm curious to know where I can just put a NEW bolt in a wilderness area without prior approval from THE MAN. I don't think there are any...so effectively, there is no NEW bolting in wilderness areas. Six months and you still won't get a positive response from THE MAN. Has any one ever gotten permission to put a NEW bolt in a wilderness area? That seems to be reality.

I'm pretty sure I could dig up some more wilderness area where this is true, but... anywhere over 400 foot elevation on El Capitan in Yosemite is wilderness area. You can place a bolt there and be in the wilderness if you really wanna. But you can't use a power drill.

I hope that never happens. I recently got some names from an FS guy that we met with and I'm hoping I can contact someone to reopen the discussion about replacement. Manny tried this a few years back and got exactly nowhere, so I'm going into it with an expectation of failure.

I would guess, rather than open up a policy of bolt replacment, that the effect of a bad climbing accident due to bolt failure in the Supes would be a closure to climbing. Sort of glass half empty view, but when you beat a dog enough...

Greg:

Good luck with the bolt replacement endeavor in the Superstitions. Thanks for the efforts, too.

Greg, who is the guy in charge currently in the supes that enforces or interpretes the law in this way. Do you know his name and location? I'd be willing to have a chat with him.
S

Where is the Red Headed Rock Pecker when you need him.

Well I heard that the Red Headed Rock Pecker is off the beach, and is climbing again !!! As far as Zonerland goes the bolting ban was a blessing. Zonerland was being invaded by the type of people that we did not like, and we were running out of places to bury them. If you go there now it is so nice and peaceful and you can hang out with Brutus and Thor, and yell and scream and no one cares. And there are 200 plus routes and endless bouldering!!!!! With out the ban we never would of had so much fun in Queen Creek plus that hike to Zonerland was stupid!Hey Ryan I'm 175 LB and 43 and can still slam you on the ground and take your Moms money!!!! Everyone else go to Zonerland and have a great time, no one there and so much to explore !!!! Remember there is gold in them there hills!!!

red head-

you once wrote:
"nobody likes you !! except the person who took your #3 friend that you left because you could not do it.
red Headed rock Pecker"

then you added "no legs" on the photo credit.

bastidge.

Finally a breath of fresh air!! Hey Rock Pecker.. I'm glad you brought up Brutus and Thor. I forgot about them. I hope they are still floating the thermals but do you remember that time Scottie Hynes hit the deck from such a long ways up and we all laughed and threw Oreos at him. How about the time I burned a huge hole in Geiks new rope while juggling hot coals the weekend Kelly and I put up Tone of a bell. The bastard made me buy him a new one. Speaking of Geik..Remember him all gripped out drilling a bolt on that ledge during Billy Idol. Bill Paul sure gave him a hard time for that. I can still see Ryan strolling up the death slabs with a pack two feet taller than he was thinking, " who is this kid." He then flashed everything. Back off now and give this one some room! And then Covington came up and gave us the Avenger. Sweeeet. Rick Donnelly AKA the Gimp did Sicky Wife Beater and The Crooked Judge and that was with both legs all broke to hell. He sure had it in him. Hey Rock Pecker! Remember when Jay Anderson on sight soloed Big Bad Bruce. How about when Ira soloed Grranimal all shaky like and Tim Winger yelled up to him, "Hey Ira..when you fall and die can I have your skull" Boy did that blow Ira's psyc. How about that Thanksgiving when John Bartlett humped up TWO full coolers of beer packed full of ice all by himself. God I loved that man after that. Hey Rock Pecker..How about the time Steve Shultz got all drunk that one night and dropped trow and set up a Tyrolian. Kinda weird but you would of had to have been there. How about Bary Ward doing To Much Commotion. Boy that sure caused a commotion. Not. Hey Rock Pecker.. Whats Smelser doing these days. He sure put up some quality routes.

Those were some good times. People can say what they want about Zonerland but they cannot say that that we trashed the place. We cared for it. Also each and every bolt placed was needed. Well I guess they could say those things but they would not know what they were talking about now would they, Rock Pecker?

Smelser is still around. Run into him from time to time. Those little kiddies that he used to stash in the playpen at Beardsley are in or out of college now. Damn...

Greg,
How about Larry Braten. Ever run into him. He took me to the Sups for my 1st time. Scary Larry SUPer star. Fck your banana. Pecker? You still out there? Remember?

Call me. We can work something out for that beta you need.