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anyone try the new BD Gridlock Screwgate?
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Dec 7, 2010
Has anyone tried out this new biner by BD? I was thinking about getting the DMM Belay Master, but I heard it can be annoying when clipped to your harness since you can't clip the plastic shut without locking the biner. Seems like the BD biner could be easier. Any thoughts? sarahw
Joined Sep 15, 2010
0 points
Dec 8, 2010
It's not out yet.

Though by the time it's out the DMM Belay Master 3, which has a plastic clip that folds in on itself to get out the the way, may be out...
Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Joined Oct 12, 2009
15 points
Dec 8, 2010
Climbing in the valley
Hmmm... Saw they have that and the new "keylock" hotwire on their website, but no word on the new hot-forged positrons and locker? Ryan Kosh
From Los Angeles, CA
Joined Nov 30, 2008
160 points
Dec 8, 2010
maybe not in .CA

moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/pro...

moosejaw has it in stock

doesnt change the fact that i havent tried it :)
Conor Byrne
Joined Jul 12, 2009
31 points
Dec 10, 2010
Whoa!

I stand corrected.
Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Joined Oct 12, 2009
15 points
Dec 10, 2010
We've been testing the Gridlock at Climbing/Urban Climber, and will review it in the Gear Guide (April). Meanwhile: It's excellent. A simple, elegant, lightweight solution. Might have a problem if you had a particularly fat belay loop, but so far we haven't found a harness it doesn't fit.

Dougald
Dougald MacDonald
Joined Apr 13, 2002
845 points
Dec 10, 2010
I'm not wanting to poop on innovation, especially without trying it, but there are some trade offs with this in my mind. This might be good in certain situations, but I don't think I'll get one for the following reasons:

1. KISS- simplicity is safety. People have belayed millions of rock miles without this and you don't really here of people falling to their deaths from cross-loaded carabiners.

2. Screw down so you don't screw up- Generally, you want the screw gate to orient downwards so it doesn't rattle loose.

3. I can see people forgetting to lock this because it takes two actions-one to seat the belay loop and then one to lock it.

Although this piece adds a layer of protection in terms of crossloading, it removes one in terms of screw gate orientation. Add to that a layer of complexity and I don't think there will be a net safety gain.

just my 1.5 cents
Evan1984
Joined Aug 15, 2007
77 points
Dec 10, 2010
OTL
Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote:
2. Screw down so you don't screw up- Generally, you want the screw gate to orient downwards so it doesn't rattle loose.


?

Are you saying you want to belay off the smaller end of biners?
Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Joined Oct 20, 2010
345 points
Dec 10, 2010
I have been really liking the gridlock. I have mostly used it with a gri gri and a mammut smart. In both cases it performs flawlessly. When you get used to setting it up, it is hardly any slower than a standard biner. I have also used it with an ATC guide, but to me, it seems the biggest benefits are for autolocking devices.

The biggest con that I find is it seems like it increases the odds of fumbling a belay device. This hasnt happened to me yet, but it just feels a bit more likely than for a standard biner.
Jason Killgore
From boulder, co
Joined Sep 18, 2008
178 points
Dec 10, 2010
let me ask a simple question

have there been any recent failure of the belay biners in a crossloading situation on a fall ?

something in say the last 10 years or so ....
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
2,053 points
Dec 10, 2010
Although I haven't tried the BD biner yet, I've been using the DMM one for about a year and love it. Took a few sessions for the motions of clipping in with it to become automatic, but now takes me only about second longer than using a regular screwgate, which is hardly going to make a difference in most situations. Only real disadvantage I've seen is that it's a bit awkward to use for rappelling, and I end up having to bring another screwgate for that purpose. As for the plastic gate not shutting without the biner being fully locked, that's only annoying when it's clipped to a gear loop. When actually in use for belaying, it's great for both people to be able to look at the closed plastic and automatically know the biner is locked. Robin Close
From Columbia, Maryland
Joined Dec 10, 2010
8 points
Dec 10, 2010
My kinda simian
bearbreeder wrote:
let me ask a simple question have there been any recent failure of the belay biners in a crossloading situation on a fall ? something in say the last 10 years or so ....


With a Gri Gri, yes.

Edit: well, I can't find a cite to back up my claim other than biners breaking while lead soloing with the GriGri, so take it as you will until someone digs something up.
Ryan Kelly
From work.
Joined Oct 10, 2006
3,262 points
Dec 10, 2010
My kinda simian
Matt N wrote:
? Are you saying you want to belay off the smaller end of biners?


With a Gri Gri, yes.
Ryan Kelly
From work.
Joined Oct 10, 2006
3,262 points
Dec 10, 2010
My kinda simian
That said, BD seems to be moving towards putting their energy into developing gimmicky unnecessary crap. I'd keep this one on the shelf right next to their last belay device innovation

Ryan Kelly
From work.
Joined Oct 10, 2006
3,262 points
Dec 11, 2010
bearbreeder wrote:
let me ask a simple question have there been any recent failure of the belay biners in a crossloading situation on a fall ? something in say the last 10 years or so ....


I recall reading about a rappelling accident due to a figure 8 getting twisted and loading across the gate of a locking biner. Not sure if this biner exactly prevents this, will leave that to those with more experience.

Found this:

theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/...
bobbin
Joined Nov 16, 2009
0 points
Dec 11, 2010
This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
Ryan Kelly wrote:
That said, BD seems to be moving towards putting their energy into developing gimmicky unnecessary crap. I'd keep this one on the shelf right next to their last belay device innovation

Ryan, you just don't see the genius, an extra channel in your tube device and all that extra material can really weigh you down when you are headed to the gym or an off highway sport climbing crag and you save like $3.

I can't see ever putting that BD gridlock thing anywhere near my groin.. no way.
Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
286 points
Dec 11, 2010
bobbin wrote:
I recall reading about a rappelling accident due to a figure 8 getting twisted and loading across the gate of a locking biner. Not sure if this biner exactly prevents this, will leave that to those with more experience. Found this: theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/...


thanks for that ... i never use a fig 8 so never saw that

personally i think that there are lot of other ways youre more likely to die that cross loading the belay biner

i do have a belay master however ... because it forces you to lock the biner ... and im jsut a gear whore
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
2,053 points
Dec 11, 2010
My kinda simian
Rick Blair wrote:
Ryan, you just don't see the genius, an extra channel in your tube device and all that extra material can really weigh you down when you are headed to the gym or an off highway sport climbing crag and you save like $3. I can't see ever putting that BD gridlock thing anywhere near my groin.. no way.



Ryan Kelly
From work.
Joined Oct 10, 2006
3,262 points
Dec 11, 2010
Profiley Styley
Ryan, that's not a safe belay device.

THIS is the only way to be safe:

How to belay multiple followers up using a rack of...
How to belay multiple followers up using a rack of belay devices
Mark Cushman
From Cumming, GA
Joined Sep 4, 2006
1,051 points
Dec 12, 2010
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH
Mark Cushman wrote:
Ryan, that's not a safe belay device. THIS is the only way to be safe:


How much for it? ;D
Brendan Blanchard
From Boulder, CO
Joined Oct 18, 2010
310 points
Dec 14, 2010
Matt N wrote:
? Are you saying you want to belay off the smaller end of biners?


Yep. Are you asking a rhetorical question to show your skepticism of an assertion that challenges your belaying dogma?

Use the narrow end with a gri or cinch.

Using the narrow end also adds in a a bit of friction when using an atc becuase it seats down harder on the belay device.

Give it a try.
Evan1984
Joined Aug 15, 2007
77 points
Dec 14, 2010
OTL
Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote:
Yep. Are you asking a rhetorical question to show your skepticism of an assertion that challenges your belaying dogma? Use the narrow end with a gri or cinch. Using the narrow end also adds in a a bit of friction when using an atc becuase it seats down harder on the belay device. Give it a try.


Rarely used a grigri or cinch as I don't own either, but I can see now how that would be more secure with those type of devices.
I thought that the larger, rounder surface was always better/smoother and thats what that comment was regarding (grigris & cinches hadn't been brought up). The DMM belaymaster and the BD Gridlock try to keep it oriented this way by design.
Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Joined Oct 20, 2010
345 points
Dec 14, 2010
What was left of the rack when I topped out on the...
Mark Cushman wrote:
Ryan, that's not a safe belay device. THIS is the only way to be safe:



HA!
Jordan Ramey
From Calgary, Alberta
Joined Jun 15, 2006
4,395 points
Dec 14, 2010
THREAD DRIFT!

Have played with the new BD belay biner and been belayed by it--pretty clever! I'd say go for it. Had the DMM and it's less of a pain as one doesn't have to swing out the plastic piece every time.
coldfinger
Joined Oct 23, 2010
67 points
Dec 14, 2010
OTL
All this talk makes me want to try the "no twist belay loop" on my CAMP harness. Never liked the thought of threading a biner through the webbing. I've always thought that only using half of the webbing's thickness was not confidence inspiring, but I know its more than strong enough to hold a car.

"No Twist Belay Loop: This is a patented feature from CAMP. An extra opening in the belay loop holds the belay carabiner securely in place so it cannot flip around and get loaded incorrectly in the event of a fall. The loop is reinforced with a piece of Hypalon to create extra friction for the carabiner once the webbing has stretched out after several uses. The No Twist belay loop is also nice for keeping the belay biner down and out of the way while climbing. This eliminates the need to attach and detach the biner at each belay making it far less likely to be dropped."

Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Joined Oct 20, 2010
345 points
Dec 14, 2010
My kinda simian
Matt N wrote:
I thought that the larger, rounder surface was always better/smoother...


Rounder?

The rope runs circumferencially around the biner, the surface contact area should be more or less the same on either end.
Ryan Kelly
From work.
Joined Oct 10, 2006
3,262 points


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