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anyone try the new BD Gridlock Screwgate?
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By sarahw
Dec 7, 2010
Has anyone tried out this new biner by BD? I was thinking about getting the DMM Belay Master, but I heard it can be annoying when clipped to your harness since you can't clip the plastic shut without locking the biner. Seems like the BD biner could be easier. Any thoughts?

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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Dec 8, 2010
It's not out yet.

Though by the time it's out the DMM Belay Master 3, which has a plastic clip that folds in on itself to get out the the way, may be out...

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By Ryan Kosh
From Los Angeles, CA
Dec 8, 2010
Climbing in the valley
Hmmm... Saw they have that and the new "keylock" hotwire on their website, but no word on the new hot-forged positrons and locker?

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By Conor Byrne
Dec 8, 2010
maybe not in .CA

moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/pro...

moosejaw has it in stock

doesnt change the fact that i havent tried it :)

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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Dec 10, 2010
Whoa!

I stand corrected.

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By Dougald MacDonald
Dec 10, 2010
We've been testing the Gridlock at Climbing/Urban Climber, and will review it in the Gear Guide (April). Meanwhile: It's excellent. A simple, elegant, lightweight solution. Might have a problem if you had a particularly fat belay loop, but so far we haven't found a harness it doesn't fit.

Dougald

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By Evan1984
Dec 10, 2010
I'm not wanting to poop on innovation, especially without trying it, but there are some trade offs with this in my mind. This might be good in certain situations, but I don't think I'll get one for the following reasons:

1. KISS- simplicity is safety. People have belayed millions of rock miles without this and you don't really here of people falling to their deaths from cross-loaded carabiners.

2. Screw down so you don't screw up- Generally, you want the screw gate to orient downwards so it doesn't rattle loose.

3. I can see people forgetting to lock this because it takes two actions-one to seat the belay loop and then one to lock it.

Although this piece adds a layer of protection in terms of crossloading, it removes one in terms of screw gate orientation. Add to that a layer of complexity and I don't think there will be a net safety gain.

just my 1.5 cents

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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Dec 10, 2010
OTL
Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote:
2. Screw down so you don't screw up- Generally, you want the screw gate to orient downwards so it doesn't rattle loose.


?

Are you saying you want to belay off the smaller end of biners?

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By Jason Killgore
From boulder, co
Dec 10, 2010
I have been really liking the gridlock. I have mostly used it with a gri gri and a mammut smart. In both cases it performs flawlessly. When you get used to setting it up, it is hardly any slower than a standard biner. I have also used it with an ATC guide, but to me, it seems the biggest benefits are for autolocking devices.

The biggest con that I find is it seems like it increases the odds of fumbling a belay device. This hasnt happened to me yet, but it just feels a bit more likely than for a standard biner.

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By bearbreeder
Dec 10, 2010
let me ask a simple question

have there been any recent failure of the belay biners in a crossloading situation on a fall ?

something in say the last 10 years or so ....

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By Robin Close
From Columbia, Maryland
Dec 10, 2010
Although I haven't tried the BD biner yet, I've been using the DMM one for about a year and love it. Took a few sessions for the motions of clipping in with it to become automatic, but now takes me only about second longer than using a regular screwgate, which is hardly going to make a difference in most situations. Only real disadvantage I've seen is that it's a bit awkward to use for rappelling, and I end up having to bring another screwgate for that purpose. As for the plastic gate not shutting without the biner being fully locked, that's only annoying when it's clipped to a gear loop. When actually in use for belaying, it's great for both people to be able to look at the closed plastic and automatically know the biner is locked.

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Dec 10, 2010
My kinda simian
bearbreeder wrote:
let me ask a simple question have there been any recent failure of the belay biners in a crossloading situation on a fall ? something in say the last 10 years or so ....


With a Gri Gri, yes.

Edit: well, I can't find a cite to back up my claim other than biners breaking while lead soloing with the GriGri, so take it as you will until someone digs something up.

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Dec 10, 2010
My kinda simian
Matt N wrote:
? Are you saying you want to belay off the smaller end of biners?


With a Gri Gri, yes.

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Dec 10, 2010
My kinda simian
That said, BD seems to be moving towards putting their energy into developing gimmicky unnecessary crap. I'd keep this one on the shelf right next to their last belay device innovation


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By bobbin
Dec 11, 2010
bearbreeder wrote:
let me ask a simple question have there been any recent failure of the belay biners in a crossloading situation on a fall ? something in say the last 10 years or so ....


I recall reading about a rappelling accident due to a figure 8 getting twisted and loading across the gate of a locking biner. Not sure if this biner exactly prevents this, will leave that to those with more experience.

Found this:

theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/...

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By Rick Blair
From Denver
Dec 11, 2010
This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I think it works quite well, depending on rope thickness and sheath quality, it belays very smooth.  Great to lower with.  You gotta love over engineering.  $3 at a gear swap!
Ryan Kelly wrote:
That said, BD seems to be moving towards putting their energy into developing gimmicky unnecessary crap. I'd keep this one on the shelf right next to their last belay device innovation

Ryan, you just don't see the genius, an extra channel in your tube device and all that extra material can really weigh you down when you are headed to the gym or an off highway sport climbing crag and you save like $3.

I can't see ever putting that BD gridlock thing anywhere near my groin.. no way.

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By bearbreeder
Dec 11, 2010
bobbin wrote:
I recall reading about a rappelling accident due to a figure 8 getting twisted and loading across the gate of a locking biner. Not sure if this biner exactly prevents this, will leave that to those with more experience. Found this: theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/...


thanks for that ... i never use a fig 8 so never saw that

personally i think that there are lot of other ways youre more likely to die that cross loading the belay biner

i do have a belay master however ... because it forces you to lock the biner ... and im jsut a gear whore

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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Dec 11, 2010
My kinda simian
Rick Blair wrote:
Ryan, you just don't see the genius, an extra channel in your tube device and all that extra material can really weigh you down when you are headed to the gym or an off highway sport climbing crag and you save like $3. I can't see ever putting that BD gridlock thing anywhere near my groin.. no way.




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By Mark Cushman
From Cumming, GA
Dec 11, 2010
Profiley Styley
Ryan, that's not a safe belay device.

THIS is the only way to be safe:

How to belay multiple followers up using a rack of belay devices
How to belay multiple followers up using a rack of belay devices

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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
Dec 12, 2010
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH
Mark Cushman wrote:
Ryan, that's not a safe belay device. THIS is the only way to be safe:


How much for it? ;D

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By Evan1984
Dec 14, 2010
Matt N wrote:
? Are you saying you want to belay off the smaller end of biners?


Yep. Are you asking a rhetorical question to show your skepticism of an assertion that challenges your belaying dogma?

Use the narrow end with a gri or cinch.

Using the narrow end also adds in a a bit of friction when using an atc becuase it seats down harder on the belay device.

Give it a try.

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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Dec 14, 2010
OTL
Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote:
Yep. Are you asking a rhetorical question to show your skepticism of an assertion that challenges your belaying dogma? Use the narrow end with a gri or cinch. Using the narrow end also adds in a a bit of friction when using an atc becuase it seats down harder on the belay device. Give it a try.


Rarely used a grigri or cinch as I don't own either, but I can see now how that would be more secure with those type of devices.
I thought that the larger, rounder surface was always better/smoother and thats what that comment was regarding (grigris & cinches hadn't been brought up). The DMM belaymaster and the BD Gridlock try to keep it oriented this way by design.

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By Jordan Ramey
From Calgary, Alberta
Dec 14, 2010
What was left of the rack when I topped out on the last pitch of Snake Dike on Half Dome.
Mark Cushman wrote:
Ryan, that's not a safe belay device. THIS is the only way to be safe:



HA!

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By coldfinger
Dec 14, 2010
THREAD DRIFT!

Have played with the new BD belay biner and been belayed by it--pretty clever! I'd say go for it. Had the DMM and it's less of a pain as one doesn't have to swing out the plastic piece every time.

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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Dec 14, 2010
OTL
All this talk makes me want to try the "no twist belay loop" on my CAMP harness. Never liked the thought of threading a biner through the webbing. I've always thought that only using half of the webbing's thickness was not confidence inspiring, but I know its more than strong enough to hold a car.

"No Twist Belay Loop: This is a patented feature from CAMP. An extra opening in the belay loop holds the belay carabiner securely in place so it cannot flip around and get loaded incorrectly in the event of a fall. The loop is reinforced with a piece of Hypalon to create extra friction for the carabiner once the webbing has stretched out after several uses. The No Twist belay loop is also nice for keeping the belay biner down and out of the way while climbing. This eliminates the need to attach and detach the biner at each belay making it far less likely to be dropped."


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By Ryan Kelly
From work.
Dec 14, 2010
My kinda simian
Matt N wrote:
I thought that the larger, rounder surface was always better/smoother...


Rounder?

The rope runs circumferencially around the biner, the surface contact area should be more or less the same on either end.

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