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Another rockfall on Cannon
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By kemple sr.
Sep 7, 2013

Went to Cannon yesterday to do Moby Grape. It was cold and too wet for me so we bailed after the roof. (A bolted anchor on this choss pile ledge would be nice). We then walked down the cliff to Slow and Easy. Huge rockfall has occurred all along the big wall section. The entire cliff base is a war zone and there are scars on most routes. We climbed slow and easy and the anchor was intact but loose gravel and debris made the top out interesting.


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By John Husky
Sep 7, 2013

Climbed there today. The rockfall is pretty scary. There is no trees left standing from SSS to Slow and Easy. Sticky Fingers has some scars that make for new or changed holds I think, but nothing major. There is fine dust all over SF, making it nearly impossible to climb, for me.

I'm with you on the anchors, Vertigo too.


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By Nick Goldsmith
Sep 7, 2013

Vertigo existing anchors need replaceing but Moby should NEVER get bolted belays added to it. So few climbs like that left where you actually have to think about where and how you will make belay and also commit to going for the top or loseing a bunch of $$$ bailing.. I am no bolt hateing trad wanker BTW and have put up a bunch of spurt climbs. Strongly feel that Moby is not the place for that.


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By kemple sr.
Sep 8, 2013

I would only want to bolt that one belay. (above the roof). There is nothing solid on that ledge, just a pile of that brown rubble that we know is rotten. There is also a long history of a pin station with a bunch of tat. Why not get something reliable in the solid slab and try to keep people off of the rotten stuff as much as possible?


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By Nick Goldsmith
Sep 8, 2013

Because it drasticly changes the charecter of the climb. The way it is now as soon as you launch above the first bolted belay you have to make all your own decisions about where and how to make belays. You have to make the decision to go up and beat the weather or risk loseing Booty bailing. Personaly I have only belayed at that crap ledge once. Your right it is a crap belay spot. Use all that experience that you have to choose a better one;) Didn't Sprague once say that the reason it was Ok that you wear a helmet is because your smart enough that you have something to protect:)

Personaly I belay on a comfortable spot where I can sit down and relax just below and left of the triangle ledge. Then I run P3 all the way to annother comfortable spot just below and left of the sickle. (this is a good way to pass a slow party doing it by the book and belaying @ the rubble ledge) I have also seen folks run P2 to about 10ft above the triangle roof and belay at a small stance with the bomber crack. Whenever I see a party belay at the rubble ledge I assume they are new to the rt and doing it by the book.

Pleanty of great places for bolts but dumbing down Moby is not one of them INMOP

My pet retro bolt fetish is the great Corner on Wheeler. The 2nd pin fell out 2 years ago and it was deemed by the powers that be (who have the climb wired into submission) to not be replaced. That section climbed really cool and fast with the fixed gear. You got a bomber #5bd stopper and ran about 15ft to a good LA clip then you ran 12ft to the 2nd LA (now missing) then you sprinted for the bolt. There have been quite a few huge whips on that pin. Now with the pin missing you sew the crap out of it with rp's and it is fairly annoying and boreing. The last time I led it there was fixed micro mank and I ended up with at least 6 pieces in the same section that used to be 3 clips. Replace that missing pin with a bolt, clean the fixed mank and it will climb better and braver that sewing it up w/ micro gear.


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By Taylor J
From new mexico, new england
Sep 8, 2013
My home project.... <br /> <br /><em>Eds. It may be called "The Compactor".</em>

no need to bolt anchors on moby grape its been climbed since the 70's just the way it is..... Let it stay that way....


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By kemple sr.
Sep 8, 2013

I have been doing the route for 25 years. In all that time there has been a fixed pin/wired nut/mank anchor at pitch 3. (above the roof). Why is a safe/reliable bolted anchor there worse than the pins? I find it puzzling that pins (which scar the rock and can't be camouflaged in later years} are ok, but bolts, which can be removed and hidden at a later date, are not.


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By John Husky
Sep 8, 2013

I'm with you on this. But obviously we can't have a reasonable discussion about bolts.

How about as a compromise we drill a couple of V-threads?


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Sep 8, 2013
El Chorro

It seems like Nick has found a very clean and efficient way to ascend the route in question w/o even stopping for a belay "above the roof," let alone needing bolts there. If he (and probably countless others) can do it, why can't everyone?

Sure, it may make life easier for there to be bolts "above the roof," but that's not what climbing is about. If we always took the easy way out, there'd be bolts all the way up every rock climb in the world.


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By Nick Goldsmith
Sep 8, 2013

Just because there was a bad anchor in a poor spot does not mean that we should upgrade to a great anchor if that changes the charecter of the climb in a negative way. (see the gunks) the anchor sucked and the gear sucked on that ledge but there are pleanty of other options to find good belays. (I figured that out on my 2nd trip up the Grape) That anchor was never a great retrete anchor so upgradeing it would change the charecter of the climb. Obviously YMMV

I am all for good quality bolts in many situations and have placed about 150 in the last 18 months on new routs but in this situation I vote a big NO.

PS. sorry if you college boys get yer pantys all in a bunch over my creative spelling. I worked full time through high school and went straight into the work force after gradumatation. Warnt no extra money to send me off to 4 yrs of learning how to spell and do keg stands on the parents dime;)


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By Nick Goldsmith
Sep 8, 2013

Bolts are 100% better than pins, tat and mank however in this situation I would be more inclined to vote for cleaning all the mank rather than upgradeing that anchor.


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By John Husky
Sep 8, 2013

Nick, How far above the "by the book" anchor do you go. I can't remember what is right above that right facing dihedral. You can't link P3 an P4 from below the triangle roof to the sickle can you? There must be a lower stance you use.


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By Nick Goldsmith
Sep 8, 2013

I link P3 and 4 to the base of the sickle. Cruise right by the slow guys who spent 30 min trying to beef up the mank anchor. Done the linkup about a dozen times w/ 60 m ropes. Pretty certain I have also done it with 50m ropes. Pulled at least 3 passes there. I have friends who run P2 through the Triangle roof and belay at a small stance w/ good gear right above the triangle roof. The guides do this as well so that they can hoist the clients over the roof..

I have never run into significant rope drag on this pitch going from just below triangle all the way to the sickle. the pitch I get henious rope drag on is from the grassy ledge 100ft above the finger through the corner/cave and out on to the slab above the cave. Even though this is a relativly short pitch of about 100ft I get brutal drag as soon as I get on to the slab and usually end up with cramps in my biceps pulling 200ft of rope up to the belay.


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By Dave Curry
From Warwick, RI
Sep 9, 2013

Some pics of the base of Slow and Easy. New large blocks behind climbers.


Base of Slow and Easy
Base of Slow and Easy


rockfall <br />
rockfall


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By Derek Doucet
Sep 10, 2013

Another alternative to belaying on the loose ledge suggested by the guidebook:

From the bolted anchor atop Reppy's, climb all the way through the triangle roof (with care you can avoid and keep the rope out of the loose chimney and other junk just above the bolts, BTW) and belay on the nice small ledge just above the roof. There is a perfect .75ish camalot crack in excellent rock there. This is an ideal spot to maintain line of sight with your second as s/he negotiates the roof, and also to provide assistance should s/he have trouble pulling it. While not exactly spacious, there is ample room, even for a party of 3, on this ledge.

From there, you can easily reach either of the two typical ledges below the finger, meaning this strategy doesn't add to the overall pitch count.

While I'm far from opposed to bolted anchors, I believe there is no need for another on this route and agree that that it would change the character of the route for the worse.


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By SethG
Sep 10, 2013

I've climbed the Grape once. I think Nick makes a lot of sense.


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By Jcomeau
From Hopkinton, MA
Sep 10, 2013

Looks like some big stuff came down


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By Dankasaurus
From Lyons, CO
Sep 10, 2013

I onsighted every pitch of Moby Grape with double ropes and, when I saw the options for an anchor after the roof, just kept going around the loose (and wet) shit to the Sickle.

Agree with Nick G. There was some drag but it wasn't bad and if you're worried climb with double ropes (advisable on Cannon long routes anyways). Next time I'll try the belay just above the roof move. Seems like a nice exposed belay, and you can get bomber gear before and after the mank.

Please no bolts.


PS- Climb Duet...it's really good.


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By Taylor J
From new mexico, new england
Sep 11, 2013
My home project.... <br /> <br /><em>Eds. It may be called "The Compactor".</em>

I suppose it does not matter too much since no one here really has the right to toss bolts on this anyhow....


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By coldatom
From Cambridge, MA
Oct 15, 2013
Jurassic Park

A climber told me he saw evidence of recent rockfall near the base of Moby too. I don't think he was confusing this with the destruction at the base of Slow and Easy, but maybe. Anyone else been up there since Oct 13?


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By E thatcher
From Plymouth/ North Conway (NH)
Oct 15, 2013
First ascent of the metal arches in my school library...Holderness School

My partner and I walked the base today on our way to our route. It looked like the fall happened from above Duet buttress and the rock fall was split on either side of the buttress. Most of the destruction was lookers right, or right beneath sticky fingers, but there was also some fresh talus on the left hand side of the buttress.

We also saw what looked like fresh rock fall lookers left of Moby. not nearly as significant, but fresh looking none the less.

To finish the day we climbed Consolation price which is covered in loose rock and pock marks from previous rock fall.

Was a sobering day!


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